If you have a difficulty with another human being, there’s some point of ignorance and some point of delusion that are keeping you from being able On both sides. On both sides. The problem is you can only worry about yours. And then once you clear yours and your vision gets clean and purified and you approach a person from a purified space, things get a whole lot easier.
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, today’s a very very special episode of On Purpose. Not only is it the first episode of season 3, not only am I sitting down with the one and only Will Smith, but today we’re going to dive in to the mind, the heart, and the soul of the man behind the movies and the music, and my dear dear spiritual brother and friend. So, Will, with that, you know,
without any further ado, I just want to say I’m grateful, I’m humbled, I’m so happy to have spent so many special moments with you over the past year. This sounds romantic now. My wife’s going to I know. get worried again. But but I mean it, man. You’ve been spending a lot of time with Will. Yeah, she’s never thought She’s never felt uncomfortable about my relationship apart from Will.
The only time she’s doubted me is like, “Oh, another trip with Will.” Like That’s why this time she came along. We We certainly have some pictures that, you know, waterfalls, you know, glaciers, Yeah. you know. We We definitely didn’t even take all the pictures, man. No. But But no, thank you, man. This is This is going to be special and I’m just excited for us to serve together in this way. No, this is this is fantastic.
It’s uh uh been a long time coming for us to to sit down like this. Um uh for for the people listening it’s probably been a year. We’re running up on a year now, right? It’s It’s like, you know, 10 months or something like that. Um that uh I’ve been studying with with Jay. Um uh I fell fell in love with the the Bhagavad Gita.
Jay and I have been spending time. We’ve been hanging. We’ve been traveling together. Jay has really been the the catalyst for this next phase of my life. We have committed to one another in a brotherhood um of service and support and uh you know, we we’ve been uh I guess we’ve been in the gym. You know, we we’ve been in the in the soul gym working out for the past 8 months and this is really this is our first time um you know, uh doing anything that’s a a that’s public facing.
So, uh I’m excited to talk about what we’ve you know, been working on and Jay’s been working with my my family pretty much uh every day a new Smith uh starts to uh study with with Jay and also our our teacher Radhanath Swami. So, it it’s been it’s been a beautiful year um and I’m very excited to to start talking to people about what we’ve been studying and learning and doing together. Absolutely, man.
And I also want to say too like I think it’s rare where you you get to sit down with someone that you’ve got to know intimately and closely. And also when you sit down and I’ve I’ve probably watched I’m trying to think I think I’ve watched every interview you’ve ever done like over the years.
Before I met you, when I met you, and I’m always talking to you I’m like, “Oh, I remember you said this 5 years ago or 10 years ago you were saying this.” And when I’m sitting down with you now I’m thinking, you know, it’s I remember the first time I properly met you was at Willow’s birthday a few years back. And everyone was wearing it was Willow-ween.
So, everyone was dressed in costumes and stuff. So, I didn’t even know it was you. And then you had you had like the Zorro kind of mask over your eyes. And so, it was a big person. I was like, “Oh, maybe that’s Will, maybe that’s not.” I didn’t know. And then you lifted your mask off. And the thing I recognized you about from the moment I met you was just your ability you have this unique ability to just be really present and kind and and deeply there with everyone you meet.
And and I think that for, you know, having having met you in public arenas, whether it was Bad Boys premiere and then in our personal meetings as you were mentioning, you you’re just even better. And and and I think that that’s so hard to be when you’re back So, but but I remember that and that was the hospitality men really felt with you like that that ability to care for each person walking in, the family aspect, making us feel welcomed and a part of it.
That I I just think that that in today’s world that human aspect is what we’re all missing. I think that’s a that um is a a part of my DNA, you know, um part of it from difficult aspects of my childhood, you know, I grew up with violence in my home. You know, so um I developed, you know, a really acute emotional sense, you know, out of defense.
You know, I just needed to make sure that my father was okay. I needed to make sure things were going well, and I just became really hypersensitive um to emotional movement in a room as a as a defense mechanism. And then as I, you know, grew and as I started to uh develop that, you know, that heightened sense that started out as defense, as I settled down and, you know, came in to uh a a deeper understanding of my my uh my power and my desires in the world, it was easier to connect to people in a loving way.
It It trans- It transferred easily from a defense mechanism to an ability to love and and care for people. That’s That’s amazing though that you were able to process it positively. Yeah. I feel like we’re living at a time, we’ve talked about this before, that our childhood experiences form our adult desires. Absolutely. feel like now people are starting to hear that in the conversation where they’re like, “Oh, yeah, because this happened with my parents.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I feel like this. How do you think you were able to Because we’ve talked about this before when you’ve talked about different your mother, your father, what you learned from them. Tell us a bit about what you learned and how you were able to process it positively and engage with it rather than create a negative story from it.
Because a lot of people may see violence and react differently. Yeah, yeah. I I think there’s always uh an aspect of us that when we feel unloved, you know, in any capacity, in any relationship, when we feel unloved, uh when we feel mistreated, when we feel uh somehow disrespected, um it’s a natural reaction to want revenge. And I think that’s what happens with most people, specifically in our in our most vulnerable stages when we’re children, and we haven’t done anything to deserve that kind of treatment, um, it’s really hard for the ego to not click into
revenge. You know, and you know, once I discovered that that mechanism, once I saw that that like that that most of us walk around with. Yeah. That, you know, we we want revenge against that mistreatment. It’s a little piece of that with all of us. So, the problem is that when you seek revenge, you destroy yourself.
And that’s the um that’s the paradoxical conflict that we all live in. Someone has mistreated us. We want revenge, but if we take it, we hurt ourselves more. It’s crazy. I was just saying Right. You know what I mean? You know, so that is the as Radhanath Swami referred to, the perplexing situation that we find ourselves in.
And the the the only answer is loving-kindness. And most of us don’t want to hear that. It’s like I’ll take my chances with revenge. I’m going to take my chances with punching this dude in the face or cussing this girl out or whatever it takes, but, uh, um, I can’t do loving-kindness. And for me, I had such a beautiful example of loving-kindness in my grandmother when when I was growing up, I always knew I wanted to be that.
The way that she loved and cared for people, um I didn’t realize that her giving was connected to her peace. That was something that that I got a a concept of later, but I always knew that that was my example and I think that’s the critical part. We need we need an example. Somebody has to be an example. Human beings are creatures of example.
We need we you got to see it. Yeah. You know, so uh that’s really where I am in my life right now. I want to uh show what it looks like to be loving and kind and giving and forgiving. Um And and I I just want to I want to model those virtues as best I can. It’s amazing how the thing we think that’s going to help us feel better Yes.
is actually what makes us feel worse. Yep. And you hold on to it because somewhere inside of you you feel you have to be the person to show that person Yes. Yes. the truth. Like you feel like it’s your responsibility. You’re going to be the hammer of justice. Yeah, and so you carry that and it reminds me of there was this thing that this this lesson that we were talking about and sharing in in our meetings was um this quote by Russell Barkley where he said, uh people who need the most love ask for it in the most unloving ways.
Absolutely. Absolutely. you were saying when you were giving examples of people in our society today who it sounds crazy, but somehow they are seeking love. Absolutely. And when you when you kind of put that in your head, you’re like oh, like that’s that’s just a plea uh a begging Yep. a literal like it’s not even a proposal, it’s like a demand for love.
absolutely. And you were saying that and and I love what you said then, that’s why I’m bringing it back to what I was saying earlier, the reason why I was highlighting the personal aspect of you is that I think that the example that you’re setting through who you can be is even more than what you’ve done. Mhm.
Yeah. What you’ve done is amazing and there’s nothing to be taken away from it. It’s phenomenal what you’re achieving and what you continue to achieve, but being able to do that with a loving heart Yeah. that must be I mean, how does that feel internally? Does that also feel that way or or no? Is that Are you like, “No, no, Jay, the the success the success feels way better than that, Jay. You don’t get it.
” But now, but you know, we we had that we had that conversation and there there was a there was a real period in my life that I had to to struggle with we can win or I can be nice. Mhm. Pick one. Right? And different people pick different things. Right. For the type of material world climbing you know, that that I did for a a big chunk of my life um it was military-minded.
You know, we’re going to get that flag to the top of that hill. And you are going to help or you’re not going to be here, right? So, that’s that’s one mindset. And then after I got the flag to the hill a couple of times and kept getting the flag to the hill and realized that you just you don’t feel good and you’ve scorched earth you know, around you and you’re like no nobody’s really happy, you know, and then I started to have to question that mindset, you know, I had one of the greatest runs in Hollywood history, you know, that
eight number one movies, all over a hundred domestic, biggest global movie star, all of that, and my family was miserable. You know, and I had equated winning with happiness. Right? It’s like we’re winning, what is y’all problem? You know? You know, and the the transition from product focus, like military minded, get to the top of that hill, and then I shifted into a a mindset, it was really my kids who brought me out of that.
I I shift into discovering like, well, damn, people really care about how they feel. You know, and as as crazy as that sounds, like, you know, you know, my my father wasn’t concerned with how I felt. You know, he wasn’t concerned with how he felt. He was military minded. You achieve the mission. And there’s two possibilities.
When I give you a mission, there’s two possibilities. One, you complete the mission, or two, you’re dead. Right? You know, and that’s what my father was saying. I grew up with that. Oh, cool, right? I actually had to discover feelings. Right? And start like, I used to have to really focus on okay, how’s this person feel? How’s this person feel? Not what do I need them to do, and not they’re wasting our time right now, and we’re losing time, and we’re going to not finish this mission, right? But, there’s a There is a balance between the mindset of
achieving and loving-kindness that at this point of my life, I’ve actually discovered the magical balance, but it’s really hard to get people to let go of the attack and defend achievement mindset and trust the care and concern for your fellow humans as a way of creating higher production. Yeah. Yeah. I hope everyone who’s listening and watching right now is taking this in because I think what you’re painting is a very transparent, honest picture of our minds.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can relate to what you’re saying. So, I can relate to times in my life where I’ve been so about winning and success and and numbers or whatever it may have been, and and I know I’m not even becoming the person that I want to be in that process, and I don’t even like myself.
But, because you’re choosing to like yourself because of what you’re achieving, you’re finding a new way to like yourself, but not over who you really are. And so, I just hope everyone who’s listening and watching, you know, when you speak sometimes Will, it’s so it’s so extreme because you’ve got so close to that emotion that sometimes people get like, “Oh, no, that’s a bit extreme. I’m a bit more balanced.
” But, really, we all have that kind of Does that make sense? Like, we all have a bit of that extreme instinct inside of us in some area of our life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and it’s it’s sometimes a delusion to feel, “Oh, I’m actually balanced.” Like, Yeah. Yeah. we sometimes listen and go, “Oh, yeah, no, no, that’s him.
” Like, him. His father was military. Um but, I’m I’m I’m balanced, you know? We always feel We always feel we’re balanced. We’re balanced. Yes, exactly. I felt like I was balanced. I felt like I was balanced. We always feel like we’re on that as the Buddha would say as we talked about the middle path.
Like we always feel we’re on the middle path and everyone’s lost. Everyone else is confused. Oh my gosh, that that celebrity is confused or that person’s on the wrong path. I’m okay, but you know, I really hope as you’re listening to this everyone that put yourself in those shoes. Put yourself in that mindset. It’s a healthy activity to do.
And you can learn something from the extremes also, right? And when you when you look at um the athletes, right? There’s a certain extreme mindset that you I was going to say you have to take on. I don’t know that you have to take it on, but I do know is that in this society, um we worship that mindset that um you know, it’s the the the Can you become Michael Jordan without that mindset? Yeah.
You know, and that is a that is a really powerful, difficult question. It’s like most people can’t sustain the mindset Yes. that you know, fortunately because it’s it can be so destructive, but most people can’t sustain that level of discipline to manifest the things that they want in in their life. And there’s just a there’s a poisonous edge to that kind of discipline and I’ve been to the edge of that kind of material world discipline in my mind and I can tell you you can have a whole lot of stuff and be miserable out there
on that edge and I found a much more comfortable and productive space in my life And you still need that discipline. But it it it’s like when you’re when you use that kind of power to achieve things, it’s like there’s a uh there’s a there’s a a uh a brutal reckoning. Yeah. There’s a brutal reckoning at the at the end of that.
But the amazing thing about you is you’ve been on that path in that direction. I think people sometimes see these flips where they’re like, “Oh, yeah, now that you are rich and successful and famous, now you’re going this way.” But actually from our conversations and how you’ve shared with the family or even when we’ve uh worked with some of the friends in your life, it’s like this has actually been a long process.
This isn’t just 10 12 months. This isn’t just a couple of years. This has planted a seed from your grandmother Yes, absolutely. through your whole life to always be reminded of it, to study spiritual paths, world religions, to study philosophies. Like this is just a long process. Tell me about that belief your grandmother had in you.
And tell me a bit about how she planted that deep seed, because I think what you said at the beginning that we need that example, I think everyone, if they really reflected, there’d be someone in their life, either indirectly or directly. Sometimes we forget them. But when we’ve been talking everything, your grandmother’s been such a pivotal figure.
Yeah, yeah. I I’d love for you to share what you think she did that was so powerful, because maybe there are some parents listening today and brothers and sisters and grandmothers and grandparents listening today and they’ll be able to do that for their children and grandchildren. My father, my mother, and my grandmother, whenever I think about the the three of them, um I I picture a triangle in my mind.
And I see like my father was the the base as discipline. And my mother didn’t care about anything but education. Like that you had to learn, grow, study, travel. Like my you know, my mother was really serious about educating the mind. And uh my my grandmother uh was love and God. My grandmother was that grandmother at Resurrection Baptist Church and she had you know, you we doing our Easter recitations and we was at the nativity, you know.
So she was that she was that grandmother at the church and her life was deeply devoted to God um and Jesus in the form of loving service. Right? So the form that it took was she was working hard to love everybody. You know, my I remember my grandmother uh bringing homeless people into our house when we were little and washing them in our bathtub.
I thought that was the NASTIEST THING. OH AH! BUT SHE WOULD BE IN the bathroom with her hands washing homeless people. You know, and as a child IT WAS LIKE NO! BUT AS I GREW older I just I just saw how dedicated and devoted she was to living her life in service. Um it took me 50 years to figure you know to figure out what the secret of that was, you know, but it it’s it was um there was there wasn’t there was a day of her life that wasn’t devoted to uh loving and and serving, you know, and I just watched her. She worked the the
the graveyard shift at the hospital, and she watched us, my brothers and sisters, during the day while my parents were at work, you know, and then when my parents got off work, then she went She would take a little nap, and then she would go to work at the hospital, you know, and she was the just the the the happiest person that I had ever met. Nothing fazed her.
She was okay. Um and I remember I was about 12, and I had started uh rapping. And, you know, so I had my rap books. I had all of my all my little curse words and everything in my rap book. And she found my rap book, and she She never said anything, and she just opened the cover, and she wrote a a letter to me.
Um “Dear Willard, truly intelligent people do not have to use words like this to express themselves. Uh God has given you the gift of words. Be sure to use those words to uplift people.” And I You know, I was sitting I was reading that, and just love GG. Yeah. And you know, that was part of the reason why I never used profanity in any of my music.
And it was like she she missionized me in that way to make sure that what I was doing was uplifting others. You know, and when you’re telling stories, you can always find the part of the story that is a gift for the potential of liftment of somebody that will see it. Yeah you know, so uh But yeah, she was all God, all love.
I love that, man. That’s such a beautiful story. I hadn’t heard that one before. Oh, we hadn’t talked about Yeah, yeah, yeah. When your grandmother finds your rap book and you got cuss words in it, it’s a bad look. It’s a bad look. Well, it’s it’s good that you found it that early and that that had such an impact on you and and brought you out.
Where was the as you started to grow in that success and that journey and you decided you wanted everything you do to have a positive impact on others, whether it was music and then movies and then that journey led you to just tell us about the the hard work and graft that went into the creation of what you said earlier, which was like I was working so hard and my family hated me and this didn’t work.
But tell us about that hard work because I think sometimes it’s forgotten. Yeah, yeah. And and it’s, you know, it’s it’s almost like you don’t realize how when I started spending closer time with you and started seeing you on set Yeah, yeah, yeah. and in the trailer and then you’d walk out and in 2 seconds you’d be in character.
Yeah, yeah. And then you’d walk back in and you’d be real again. And then and then we were in your man cave and you have your you have the movie plotted out and you’d walk me through like how that tells you what And and I started to understand and appreciate that what you do is a science and it is strategic and systematic and it is a skill you have worked on for decades and decades and decades.
You start to realize that the external view of like Will’s charismatic and he’s cool and you start to realize like yes, but that is underpinned with just hard work. Yeah. And and I think that that’s a real awakening that a lot of people don’t get to experience when they see you on a big screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because you don’t see all of that there. You don’t see the um the learning of the lines and and you have a phenomenal memory. Like you you know, we’re studying spiritual books together and you can remember stuff that you’ve read that day and that comes from all your years of training and and even your ability when we first met and you said, “Jay, I’m an actor.
You know, when we direct just direct me and we’ll we can do this because I can drop into a student mindset.” So so much of this is internalized. It’s not Tell us a bit about how long it took to learn all of this and start playing with it beyond just thinking “Oh yeah, I’ve got this because I I can act.
” You know, I grew up in a military household. And you know, while there you know, there are certain emotional drawbacks to that. There there are um intellectual and organizational pluses that are um you know, hard hard to beat. So um you know, my my father was really you know, strict on order um organization and the uh incremental completion of tasks.
You know, um and you know, also combined with my mother’s push on on education uh as a really young child, you know, we had to put hospital corners on our beds and our shoes were lined up and you know, so and you know, at at six years old, yeah, we were we were forced to think along those military lines. Um and everything was a mission to my father.
Like you know, never there was nothing that was um a basic task. You weren’t just going to wash the dishes. You know, it was a mission, you know, that had to be completed with um, you know, military precision, you know, down to how much dish washing liquid you’re using and how much the bottle cost. And if you use that much, and how many dishes do you wash with that amount of dish washing liquid, and how long are you going to be able to use this dish washing bottle? So, you can relate that to how much work you have to do to be able to wash that many
sounds Indian. Yeah. I have to say it. I was like, “SO, WILL, IS YOUR DAD INDIAN?” LIKE, I was like, “Wow.” That’s what That is intense. Yeah, you know, so it was really, you know, his mind was like that, and I took, you know, you we always take the things we hate the most from our parents.
But, you know, from that, the the gift of of structure, and the gift of breaking tasks down, you know, you set the you know, you set the goal, but the breaking the tasks down into smaller manageable pieces was a thing that I came out of my childhood with. Um, you know, for for example, you met JL. Did you meet Yeah, so I told when I when I said I wanted to I wanted to be the biggest movie star in the world, you know, and I was 18 or something.
have met him yet. I know you told I haven’t I haven’t met him yet. Yeah, I know you told him that. And I said I want to be I want to be I want to be one of the biggest I want to be the biggest movie star in the world. So, the first thing that we did is we looked at, okay, well, what are the top 10 movies of all time? Cuz if you want to be the biggest movie star in the world, you’re going to have to make the biggest movies in the world.
Mhm. So, we said, well, what are the top 10 movies? So, we looked at the top 10 movies. We said, well, what what are the patterns? What are the patterns in the top 10 movies? And at the time, 10 out of 10 were special effects movies. And nine out of 10 were special effects movies with creatures. And eight out of 10 were special effects movies with creatures and a love story.
So, you know, for that’s where the bent for me towards sci-fi movies came from, the recognition of the patterns of sci-fi creatures and a love story. So, that became what we were looking for with everything. And then Independence Day was a no-brainer. And then Men in Black was you know, behind that.
And it’s it’s that kind of systematized algorithms Yes, right. Exactly. Looking for what’s the What is the pattern, you know? And that’s that’s uh you know, one of the one of the gifts my father stuck me with coming coming out of childhood. Yeah. This is one of my favorite parts about talking to you because of this ability to to turn those into gifts.
Yeah. And and I want to just emphasize that point to everyone who’s listening and watching again because I think we’re living in a time right now where there’s a lot of bitterness towards parents and what we received. And and some and rightly so as well. Like some things are you know, quite hard to deal with that level of trauma, etc.
But at the same time, when we start looking at our lives this way, not in a not in a fake way or in genuine way, but but really start to process some of these things to see the powers that it gave us. Absolutely. All the superheroes that we all love in sci-fi movies, they all got their powers from bad things that happened to them.
Like no one ever had something good happen to them and then they like for Spider-Man, he got bit by a spider. For this person, like got abandoned by his parents. Like all the superheroes we all love and worship all got their powers from something bad happening to them. You know, it’s really difficult to say that to someone Yeah.
in the in the middle of the the throws of a traumatic experience. that. Right? But, you know, from sitting on this side of the experiences that I’ve shared, I you know, in in my life and in my experience, um there’s there’s there’s no such thing as a bad experience. Right? There’s experiences you don’t like. And they hurt. And they hurt. Right? But, to define something as a bad experience, for for me, um has not been true.
Everything that’s ever happened to me in my life that at the time, um was deeply traumatic and and debilitating, you know, there’s there’s, you know, been only two times in my life when I contemplated suicide. Wow. You know, there’s been two times in my life, um you know, the the the once was when my my uh mother and father uh separated.
When my parents broke up and I, you know, I was 12. And, you know, that was one of the only you know, serious times in my life that I contemplated suicide. But, even out of that, as I look back on that, the pain of that experience cultivated devotion in my life, to my family, and I just never wanted to have my children suffer that.
And of course the you know, the got divorced with from Sheree, so that was I was recreating that situation, but it it woke me up in a way that forced me to try to uh connect with my children. So, the the negative experiences are the things that were awful at the time. The you know, there’s the there’s always the other side of the coin and in my experience, I’ve cultivated uh only positive things out of the most negative experiences uh of my life.
My my my father’s death um and the 6 weeks up to my father’s death was probably the most formative time in my life. And as painful as it was and as difficult it was and all the stuff that came up during the time, I still it it was a powerful, formative, positive experience in my life. Te- Tell us a bit about that if you don’t mind about why you felt it was formative and because I think a lot of people go through the loss of their parents and you know, we’ve talked about this like the idea of like sometimes people regret of what they did or didn’t say to their
parents or maybe what they expected of their parent. What was it that was so powerful that allowed you to feel that way about that moment cuz Um I got a I got a gift that some people don’t get and it was that the doctors told us he had 6 weeks to live. Right? So, and then he lived for 4 months. Right? So, I I got a warning.
So, most people you know, most people don’t get a warning. You just get the call one day and you just you just didn’t get a chance. Um and when I found out that he was dying, um it just, by the grace of God, was in the middle of the shooting. I was doing a movie called Collateral Beauty and it was about a guy dealing with the death of his daughter.
So, I was into the uh Tibetan Book of Living and Dying and reading all the Was it Elizabeth Kubler? Just reading all the all this stuff about death. So, I’ve been programmed for 6 months and I had read and studied all of these all these books about death and grief and dying and then I get the message and I was like, I you know, I sat down with my father and I, of course, I had all of my traumas and all of my issues and everything with him, but I had also been 6 months of programming of all of the things that you’re supposed to do, you
you know, to prepare yourself for the death of a loved one. And you know, so I sat with him and we we talked about everything. So, I said everything that I wanted to say and we we got to those 6 weeks. And when we got to those 6 weeks, uh we were clear. But, then he lived for another 3 months. So, what happened was every meeting, every time I saw him, I was flying back to LA, but every every time I saw him, um was like, “Oh, thank God.
” Yeah. And then every time we said goodbye, we made sure we said a good, thorough, full goodbye cuz we knew at any moment that could it could actually be the last goodbye. Right? And but the lesson was it’s always like that. When we say goodbye, we can’t know if this is the last time we will ever see. You should never greet someone casually or say goodbye to someone casually.
And that lesson came from that experience. Every moment was so rich. Every time we saw each other, it was a And every time we said goodbye, we made sure it was a good, thorough, full goodbye. But that’s how you’re supposed to live every day anyway. Every time you leave your house could be the last time. You’re supposed to like be in the richness of your hellos and goodbyes and thank yous.
You know, and you know, so I I learned that lesson um with my father. And then when he when he passed, it was easy. We were We were finished. You know, and just the lesson of that kind of presence and that kind of attention and that kind of recognition that tomorrow’s not promised. You know, and just getting sh- getting shaken out of thinking that you’re going to have you know, tomorrow.
Anybody who hasn’t spoken to their parents or their brother or their cousin that they had a thing with or their ex and they don’t talk anymore, call them right now. You just don’t like don’t think you’re going to have a chance to call them to to tomor- to tomorrow or next week. And it’s like that that opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life.
I I cleaned all of the relationships in my life to no regret. I do not want someone to be gone and I wish I had and wish I could have and I’m I’m just I’m not doing that in my life. That’s beautiful, man. Thank you for sharing that. That’s That’s just hearing you say that I think there’s a lot of people who needed to hear that.
And I’m hoping everyone’s going to pick up the phone and message and if that person’s not here anymore, still write them a letter. Still write, absolutely. not here anymore and you didn’t get to say all of that, write a letter. Mhm. Read it out to them. Yeah. Read it to a picture of them if that’s what it takes. Yes, absolutely.
Allow yourself to share and express. Yeah. Don’t hold it in and hold it back because somehow that energy will still Yeah. reach that person and that energy’s left you, too. So, Absolutely. you know, even if you can’t call someone up today, make sure you make sure you still follow the same practice because yeah, it’s it’s just not it’s never worth it. It’s never worth it.
just never worth it. Never worth it. And and I love that idea of valuing each hello and goodbye Absolutely. and not taking it for granted or taking it lightly. You never know whatever’s going to happen, right? You just have no idea and unfortunately, we we we see it. This is This is the There’s actually a beautiful I I don’t know if we’ve ever talked about this.
There’s a beautiful piece in the Mahabharata, which is the Gita’s a small part of, and one of the students asked the teacher, he said, “What’s the most amazing thing in the world? Like, what’s the most incredible thing in the world?” And and the teacher responds and says, “The most incredible, amazing thing in the world is that we see people leave all around us, but we never think it’s going to be us.
” I never Like, so you see it and you have that moment again and again. And then you lose someone in your life and you think, “Oh, that could be me.” Or that could be someone else. And you live like that for a day, Yeah. and then the complacency sets back in. Absolutely. Tell us a bit about, you know, you’ve been studying world religions and spiritual paths for for a long time.
Absolutely. And the first time I officially reached out to you and your team and everyone, which was a few years back now, was because I saw that you’d been reading the Gita. Yeah. And the Gita was obviously the book that I read and studied so deeply and and fell in love with. And after having studied world religions myself, too.
And and I’ve I’ve had beautiful experiences reading the Bible and the Quran and and the Gita. And so, when I saw you talking about it when you were in India, Yeah. I was just like, “Wow, like this is amazing. Like I’m already a huge fan. I love Will Smith. Like how is Will reading the Gita?” I was like, “How did that even happen?” And then when I got to know you and Jada and spoke to the family, I realized that you’d taken on a challenge to like study a world religion every year.
And tell us about that and what you learned along the way. What were some of the traditions that stood out in your journey uh that that And and what did you learn from them, whether it was the Kabbalah or even Scientology? All those because you’ve shared so many beautiful lessons with me from what you’ve studied. Yeah.
And I’d love to pass them on. So, what what was uh I guess probably in the the first 10 years of our marriage, that was uh me and Jada’s bonding. Right? So, every year we would pick a spiritual tradition and we would study it all all the way through. How did you even start doing that? Like because when I hit When I heard you did that, I think Jada told me first and when I heard you did that, I was just like I was I was just it just took me aback because I’ve almost You don’t come across that all the time. And I I was lucky enough
to study world religions. My my father started encouraging me when I was about 14 to start reading spiritual books. And I I dated a Muslim girl who asked me to read the Quran. That’s how I read the Quran, which was a wonderful uh experience in my life at 16. I read the Bible because we would celebrate Christmas, and I’d feel guilty that we celebrated Christmas, but I didn’t hadn’t read the Bible.
So, I started going to church on Christmas and then reading about uh Christ in the Bible, and I just absolutely fell in love with the scripture. And then I was just reading so many different books, and finally I came back to the Gita, which was the book I was brought up with. But yeah, tell me about even why you and Jada decided to do that.
So, I don’t think I don’t even know how it developed as a thing. I know um um when we got married, we were trying to decide, you know, what what church we were going to get married, and were we going to get married in Baltimore or Philly, and would would it would it who was going to be the the priest priest, you know, with and you know, so Gammy had a different religious background, and GG, you know, you know, so we were trying to figure all of that kind of stuff out.
And and Jada didn’t want to do any of that. Jada wanted for she and I to go to a mountain, you know, and you know, pledge our love and devotion to one another to God without, you know, she felt like we we weren’t going to um adhere to this specific religious tradition. We would just be picking it for our her mother or my grandmother or something to try to figure that out.
So, um I think the discussion about the the religious background we would raise our children in is what came up uh when we were when we first got married. Um and she grew up in a thing called the Ethical Society in in Baltimore, and they would honor the the different religions. Um and my background I I grew up I went to Baptist church.
Um I went to a Catholic school and some somewhere in that first decade of our marriage we were like oh wouldn’t it be hot if we could say that we had read cover to cover all of the major holy books. Um and we we started with the the Bible and I just remember seeing her Bible was my you know how I do my books now? You see how I like all my books are highlighted all the way through and you know she completed the entire Bible you know 7 months before me.
All right? So now it’s on. All right? So then when it came the time for the for the Quran I was like I was I wanted to win. All But you know so we would take a year and we would study all of these traditions as a you know really as a way of the two of us bonding spiritually and and you know intellectually around the concepts and you know we went through Kabbalah and you know Scientology and really what was happening is every time I would meet someone who was of a different tradition I would allow that person to introduce
me to what their uh tradition was. Um and then I did Ali and so we circle back around to the Quran during during that time but we really just we we love the the idea of of spirituality and the study of the love of God. Um and uh we we don’t necessarily believe in organized religion. We believe that the organizations kind of jump ahead of the spirituality, you know, the the you know, the Church of Christ is very different than Christ.
The the the steps that Christ actually walked, you know, so we started to notice uh those kinds of differences and we just we really we just wanted to find um the truth. You know, what is the truth? And you see how my whole family dives in. The kids are doing it now, you know, with the with the the Gita. And it’s And it’s really uh just just trying to find our way, Yeah. you know, in in this world. Yeah.
And and and I and I love that and I was so fascinated by that myself because I saw that within myself. And so when I saw it with you and the family, I was I was so drawn to that because yeah, I think that a lot of what we’re trying to figure out in today’s world has been suffered for long enough in an internal way that when you’re diving into these books of wisdom, there’s just so much there to unearth.
Because people have been through the same challenges for decades and decades and decades. The the the problems have already been solved. Yeah. And lived and lived for long enough. And solved, you you know, and at the core of all of the you know, the the spiritual teachings that I’ve ever studied, at the at the the core of all of the ideas, um how you treat your neighbor is central.
Right? Yes, absolutely. Yet somehow people manage to twist you know, in in all the faiths and all backgrounds, people do unto others as you would have them do unto you is very clear. If you ask yourself that question, well, in this situation, how would I have them do unto me? And you did that, you’d never have a problem.
Because the answer is never going to be, I think they should curse me out and spit on me and whoop my ass cuz I was tripping. It’s like you just you know, I mean, I guess somebody would Yeah, maybe. No, no, no, no. I think you’re right. I think you’re right. If I were in this situation, how would I want them to treat me? Right? It’s the it’s the most simple yet yet the most profound.
Yeah. It’s that we our teachers in the ashram would always tell us and I’ve said this to you before, but they’d always tell us that these principles, you’ll learn them on day one, you’ll think that you know them on day two, but you spend your whole life trying to realize them. Yes.
And and that’s the challenge with us that we we take what we learn on day one and what we know on day two to be like, I already know that. Yes, exactly. And the teaching doesn’t What I love about what we’ve been doing is like the teaching gets to like reveal itself to you. It’s like it’s always opening up. It’s like a lotus flower.
It’s It’s always blooming. It’s not like, oh, it’s open now, it doesn’t matter. It’s like always opening up to you and if you give it that time and patience, then you can truly see it grow and bloom into something. But if you just if you just try and force it open, it it just I mean, you know, if you forced a flower open, it would just break.
And that’s what happens, that What I say What I say to you all the time is, you know, so to to give people a sense of it, so we’re we were doing, you know, two to four hours a a day, you know, you know, a few days a week for months. yeah. For months, you know. And uh you know, I we were spending as much time together as we were would spend with our families or other things.
So, we we we’ve we’ve logged some real hours in this in this last year. And the thing that was always amazing to me is that we could take eight hours, right? And we spend it, and we get it, and we study, we do all of that. And you leave my house, and I pick up my phone, how quickly somebody could snatch me I was like, And and and it really is a serious moment-to-moment practice to remember to be nice to people.
When you get sucked back into the foolishness so hard and so fast. And that was frustrating to me for a while. Like Like literally, we would do eight hours, and and I’m great. I’m great. And you wouldn’t be off of the off of the block yet, and I pick up my phone, and there’s a business call. And literally that fast.
Like literally in in 45 seconds, my mind could get triggered back into that that mindset. You know, I I I know now that that’s just is everyday. Yeah. It’s you don’t you know, you don’t get to know it and be done. Like it’s a it’s a daily practice for the rest of your life to be able to deal with the foolishness of this world in a way that’s productive and kind. Yeah.
Now everyone knows I’m terrible at what I do. Well, I know. It’s like as soon AS YOU HAVE TO DO IT IT’S LIKE OH WOW, LIKE JAY, YOU DID YOU’RE REALLY BAD AT THIS. IT’S LIKE OH, JAY, you should have left Will with a little more girth than that. I know. You can’t even last 2 seconds at that. That’s terrible. Well, you’re you’re work you’re you’re working with years of of sediment, you know.
All of us, lifetimes, like the conditioning is so strong. Yeah, yeah. And it’s it’s almost like when we start to do the work, you’re walking into a garden full of weeds. Yeah. Yeah. So all the flowers are covered. All the beauty of the garden is covered in the weeds. And so you’re cutting down the weeds, but because you’ve been watering the weeds for so long, they keep growing back.
And so you keep cutting them down and then they keep growing back. And it’s it’s the example, the analogy of the mirror that’s given um in the Vedic tradition around how when you walk in and you try and clean a mirror that hasn’t been cleaned for lifetimes, it’s dusty. Yeah.
And so when you start cleaning it, the dust comes up in your face and you’re like oh, I can’t see. I can’t I can’t see and that’s what we’re all going through. Yeah. And we when we start realizing what you just said, the day-to-day, it’s like if you if if all of us said we want a plan I keep using gardening analogies, but it’s only because it makes so much sense.
I feel because we’re so disconnected from nature, our mindset has become instant and our mindset has become now. Whereas when you watch nature, nature’s never instant. Yeah. Like I call it hunting versus farming. Right. Okay. Hunting versus farming where where people just like just just let’s get it. Let’s get it and eat, right? That’s a great I love that.
I love that. You know, versus no, we’re going to like we have to plant the crops and grow them and yeah. I love that. Yeah, because it’s it’s it’s the idea that if you if me and you said we want to plant a tree, you’d have to come back to that tree every day to see how it was doing. Yeah. And it won’t be a tree for many, many years, but you’d have to come back every day, water it, sunlight, move it, replant the soil.
And that’s what we’re doing with ourselves, but for some reason because we’re so disconnected from nature now, we think that oh, if I just meditate today Yeah. then it’s you know, it’s like saying oh, I’ll eat today and I don’t have to eat tomorrow. Yeah, right. Like oh, I showered last week and last week. I’m good.
I’m good. But but yeah, it’s you know, and I again, it was your commitment. I remember when we were on that first phone call and I was like you were like oh yeah, I want to work on this. I was like how much time do you have? Like how much how much time do you have? And I would you know, you’re Will Smith something and you don’t have any time.
And and I don’t know how serious you get yet. I’m not I’m not aware yet of how how immersed and obsessed you get with stuff. I’m still learning about you. And then you’re like I’ve got 2 hours and I was like all right, 2 hours a week, 2 hours bi-weekly, 2 hours monthly? You’re like no, 2 hours a day. 2 hours a day. And I was LIKE WOW, HE’S REAL.
I WAS LIKE he’s serious. I was like I was like wow, he’s he’s for real. And then you know, it was just it was and I’d go away and you reinspired so much of my own study. And that’s what I was telling to you over Christmas which is when we kind of broke off as I went to London and and you you’ve been traveling. It’s like I spent the whole of Christmas reading myself for 4 to 8 hours a day meditating again.
Because I felt I had to be more to give you more. That’s beautiful. And and I think that that was such a gift you gave me where I fell back in love with what I fell in love with years ago. That’s beautiful. Because of the work we were doing. And because when you’re answering someone’s questions, you have to read deeper and think more and reflect more.
And so for me, I went away from those meetings going, “Gosh, I you know, I better start reading more.” You It was but it that’s what’s so beautiful about sharing something like that together. Yeah. It was great when with the Radhanath Swami when when uh you told him that you were going to be working with me and I just loved his response.
He said, “Oh, that is so great. You’re going to get to teach all of the things you need to learn.” Yeah. I remember I I was I was just telling him I was like I I was I was explaining to him how sincere you are and I was like, “You know, he’s so serious and he’s sincere.” And then that’s what he came back with. You know, that’s when you know you’ve got a good teacher who knows how to like squash your ego and make you realize how small you are.
And and it was beautiful because from that moment, that was my attitude when I was meeting you. I was like, “I’m saying this for me. I’m saying this for me.” You know, and and that allows you to be so much more um just allows you to get out of the way. Yeah. And let the wisdom do its work. Yeah. That’s so real.
This the central um problem that has been the focus of my life and everything that I’ve done has been centered on um having a successful love relationship. Right? So, I saw my parents when when they were growing up and I hated that my parents marriage deteriorated and um you know, as young as I can remember, 5 6 years old, I wanted to be married.
I wanted to have a family. Um I’ve never been the guy that that you know, wanted to do threesomes and groupies and I like I just I’ve never been that guy. I always wanted to uh commit commit and have a single successful relationship. So, the the the scientist in my mind and in my study of spiritual text and things like that, I’ve always been looking for the secret to um successful uh love relationships.
And then as I’ve grown, it’s sort of expanded and I’m seeing the through line uh oh, the same basic ideas are successful parenting. And the same basic ideas are being uh successful follower or successful leader or successful student. And I started to see the central issues with all of human relating.
And it’s it’s the the problems or it’s not even problems, the problem is really singular. And if you’re talking about a husband and a wife or you’re talking about a uh parent and a child or a Democrat and a Republican or uh a you know, a Saudi and an American, whatever in all of the configurations of of human difficulty at the at the center of it is almost exclusively a lack of understanding of the other person’s perspective.
Right? And you know, it sounds it’s and it it it it it may oversimplify slightly, but the the the concept of ignorance, the concepts of ignorance and delusion are always the problem. Yeah. Right? It’s it’s always the center. If you have a difficulty with another human being, there’s some point of ignorance and some point of delusion that are keeping you from being able On both sides.
On both sides, right? And the the problem is you can only worry about yours. You have to clear yours. And then once you clear yours and your vision gets uh clean and purified, and you approach a person from a purified space, things get a whole lot easier. You know? And it’s like you are all you’re you are always bringing poison to the party.
And when you recognize that in any difficulty you’re having with any human being, you brought poison to the party. Right? And if you can focus on locating and purifying the the poison you brought, it opens up entirely new avenues of connection and compromise and solutions that you can create with a person.
And you know, that has really been the the central focus of my life and being an actor has been spectacular in that way because my life is exploring my mind. You know? And changing it, right? When I play a character who believes something that I don’t believe, I have to learn how to feel something that’s in opposition to my truth.
Yeah. Which is a spectacular skill set to have to uproot beliefs, implant new ideas, and have them blossom on camera at the right moment. You know, it’s been such a a powerful inner process of development to explore acting in conjunction with spirituality and supreme absolute truth, you know, to explore that as my job. Yeah. Is fantastic.
Everyone should be trained as an actor. When you first said that to me, when you first said that to me, I was like I never thought of it. And obviously I’m not an actor, and so I wouldn’t know that, but when you said that to me, I was like, wow, that’s like how people should be taught how to be students. Right. Because the idea that you have the skill set, and it’s a skill to put your beliefs aside Yes.
and go, I need to live by the beliefs that this character would die for. Absolutely, yes. And what would they be willing to die for? Yes. And then you’re experimenting with it, and then you can see whether you like it or not. Absolutely. And how it feels. Whereas most of us are so grounded in our own beliefs that we don’t know how to take that hat off Right. and put another one on.
Absolutely. And that’s where all of our issues come from, because that story of someone else. Yeah. Someone that you know that did that extremely well in in probably the the most difficult circumstances would be Nelson Mandela. Yes, absolutely. You know, you’ve spoke we’ve spoken about it many times. You’ve spoken about it publicly many times.
I just found this clip of you guys together Oh, no, yeah. that I love. That I have to show you. It’s it’s a while ago, but it’s one of It’s really It’s I watched this whole I would watch the Anyone who’s watching you have to go watch the whole thing. I’m only showing Will a short clip. Um but but it’s this clip here.
I don’t know if you remember. I I was I was saying to you, you know, I’m an actor. You what did I make rap music? That’s what I do. What What can I do? And you know, I sat with Mr. Mandela and was so inspired. You know, you want to immediately you want to quit your job. You know, you want to go out in the streets, you know, you want to fight.
You know, and he he said he said, “No, you have to understand the power of what it is that you do. You have to understand the hope that is created by the work that you create.” And he told me that don’t not to force it, that the call would speak to me. And um today the the call has has spoken to me and I humbly, gratefully, and will aggressively respond. And I THANK YOU.
WOW. SPEAK OF THE DEVIL. I just remembered I wanted to ask him that question. You have to tell him what he said. Yeah, this year. That’s where I was sitting down in the hall. Wow. Wow. Goodness. I had forgotten about that. Good Willow. That was Jaden. Mhm. That’s wild.
Yeah. Wow. there are so many I could show you. That was the one I picked. There was so many. Like beautiful clips of you two together. Yeah. No, that was uh that was um that was one of the you know, I’m I’m not a man prone to regrets, you know, and we talked about this a lot, but that was one of the that was one of the regrets.
And and you know, I’m I’m making my way back around to the ideas, and that’s you know, part of our um relationship uh and with Radhanath Swami. Um but I was sitting with Mr. Mandela. It may it may have even been that day. And we were sitting with calm. And he just had this look on his face. And I said uh I said what’s that look on your face? And he was kind of looking he was just watching people.
I said, you know something that the rest of us don’t know. He definitely did. And he looked at me and he it the look that I recognize now was he said, oh. Right? That it was like that’s the right question. Mhm. You know? And he said um he said, if you come spend some time with me, I’ll teach you. And somehow I was so uh just felt so unworthy of that.
He reached out to me every year before he died. And you know, he would say, I’m an old man, you need to come spend some time with me.” And I just felt unworthy, you know? Um and he wanted to teach me what we’re studying. You know, he he wanted you know, I I I’ve I’ve tasted a little bit of what he wanted to teach me.
And the the the the question is how can you smile in this world? You know, cuz you’re not going to change it. You know, you’re going to you’re going to do your part, but th- this this this world is chaotic and it’s brutal and it can be really unloving. And how do you do your part with a smile on your face? You know, and it was um it’s really beautiful.
Wanted a few things. Not not even, you know, I know things happen in their in their time, so it’s not a not a regret regret regret, but it’s like a regret. Well, I I I always say to you that it’s First of all, it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s actually a very um the fact that you didn’t go because you felt unworthy Mhm. is is a at least from the traditions I’ve studied would be considered extremely good spiritual qualification for learning.
Yeah. Like like when when we think it’s weird like spiritual life is like it’s teaching you self-worth without having low self-esteem. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it’s and you said it once in an interview or speaking about Nelson Mandela, you said like, you know, it’s like being in his presence made you realize how small you were.
Yes. Yeah. But how big you could be. How big Yes. Right? You said that. And when I heard you say that you said saying that again. Yeah. That’s good stuff. Yeah, you said that. You said that and and it was I when I heard you say that, I was like, that is spiritual self-worth. Like we live in a world today where self-worth or self-belief is all that I’m the best, like I I own this, like I’m worthy of everything.
Like of course Nelson Mandela wants to spend time with Will Smith. Like that would that’s material self-worth. But it’s it’s fickle and it’s boring and it’s so it has no base to it. It’s baseless. It Whereas that feeling of like when as you said that when I’m with him or when I was around him, I realized how small I was but how big I could be.
That’s spiritual self-worth. And I think people often can confuse humility with weakness or with low self-esteem. Like oh Will, you must have had low self-esteem. But it’s not. It’s just the idea that I still have to evolve a little bit to feel like and and you know, you to deserve his time and attention.
And because you had that I feel, you know, you’ve continued in your way to find the and and he’s still involved in your life. I think that’s the beauty of it. If someone loves you that much, they don’t stop like your grandmother, she didn’t stop being involved in your life. And I felt every time you’ve spoken about him that you’ve brought him into my life just by speaking about him and and now into everyone else’s life even more.
And and you know, I’m sure, you know, obviously I can’t speak on his behalf at all, but all I can say is that his energy is still in your life for sure. He lives through you. Yeah, it’s it’s beautiful. But I want to talk about a few more things before I let you go. There’s I could talk to you forever so and we do do that. So I won’t do that today.
But I wanted to talk to you about when you mentioned because this I have I came back to this because this was the initial statement that was like, I need to get to know Will. And it was when you said that you were channeling your inner Arjun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and you said that, and I was just like, what? Like It’s just two of my worlds colliding.
Yeah, yeah. I grew up watching Fresh Prince every day. I knew every pickup line. I used every pickup line because of you. Uh, I bought the I bought the Bad Boys suit. Like, you know, for me it’s like that was my teenage years. Yeah, I know. That’s genius. I I I watched Bad Boys for Life for the seventh time on the way here today to Dubai cuz I thought I wasn’t a I was like it’s it’s offensive to watch any other movie.
So, I’ve I’ve been a big fan for years. Then I go off, be a monk. I come back, and then I’m in the world. And then I see you say this, and I’m like, what? Like, to me it was just it was so it was it’s just and obviously getting to know you after that has made me go, okay, God had a plan, and this is all, you know.
But but tell me about why Arjun as a character for you has been because you even, and I think this is because of you and your storytelling, you even brought Arjun in my life more to life. So, tell me a bit about why Arjun was so synonymous with you and You know, so the there are um figures in in spiritual texts and uh just in general for human beings where, you know, being creatures of example.
And there’s you know, for probably for five or six years before uh Arjun I I I just was stuck on Abraham. I just loved Abraham’s life. Right? And I was following Abraham and on his, you know, on his deathbed he gets up to wash the feet of the guests in his house. You know, just stories like that, you know, um just really stuck with me.
So, then I started reading um about Arjun and the circumstance that he was in for people that don’t know Arjun is in a battle his his family has tripped out he’s a he’s a wonderful Archer. He’s the best archer in the world and his family trips out and take the kingdom and they’re like you know, they snatch his wife and they’re trying to disrobe his wife and he’s looking like yo, what are y’all jokers doing? Like and he comes home and he’s like and they seized the kingdom and he can’t believe that they have done this and
he you know, he’s a warrior and you know, he could get he could get the kingdom back, you know, but these are his uncles and his his brothers-in-law’s and his teachers and people that he loved and trusted and they took his kingdom. And they prepared an army and they’re going to fight Arjuna and he’s he’s devastated that his family and his friends and all of that for material gain would would do this to him and he’s deeply pious.
And they prepare an army the greatest army that’s ever been assembled. Except that they don’t know that God is driving Arjuna’s chariot. Right and they think they’re going to tear through Arjuna. They’re going to do all of this but God is driving Arjuna’s chariot. Right? And even in that, you know, Arjuna he’s he’s He’s like, “How can me killing all of my family be the right answer?” Right? And on the on the other side of that, he’s like, “Well, I’ll just let them kill me.
” I’m not doing that. There’s no version of me going into battle with them. I don’t care how wrong they are. I don’t care and it’s and as I just got deeper and deeper into that story, it’s like, I feel like that all the time. Right? I feel like I’m in um what Ram Dass Swami referred to as a perplexing situation.
Always. Always, right? That I feel stuck in a perplexing situation with people I love where there’s not clean answers. Right? And I always feel strong enough like if if you if you want to fight, we can fight. I’m not I know how to fight, but I thought how can that be the right thing, you know? And I just really related to um how the Gita handles those kinds of perplexing situations and recognizing that’s what life is.
You are born into a perpetual perplexing situation. And that the the it was it was the first time that I’d ever heard the spiritual idea like that that life is a perplexing situation and you’re never going to get around being stuck in the duality. You have to elevate above the the whole thing. You know, and the the the Christian concept about that that I always heard and never understood fully.
My grandmother would say all the time, “You got to let go and let God.” Right? And it was And it was like that. It just, you know, the the the Gita filled in that concept of what it really means. It doesn’t mean don’t do anything. Let go and let God doesn’t mean don’t do anything. It means do your divine duty.
Whatever that may be. And just for whatever reason the study of the Gita at this particular point in my my life really clarified a lot of ideas of how to move through a a world where you almost can’t do it right. Right? It’s like there’s a there’s God’s playing a practical joke. Right? And when you start seeing you know, that there’s a trick in there, you know, and the the the Gita illuminated that trick for me in a way I was like, “How could I be the biggest movie star in the world, be the best at all of this and
you How you NOT LOVE ME? RIGHT? AND you know, how was my family miserable? And he’s like, that’s the trick. You know, that’s the practical joke. That’s beautiful explained. Because it’s it’s the perception of the right reaction. Yes. That’s where we get lost in that. For us, something what going back to what you said at the beginning, you were like, there’s no such thing as a bad experience.
It’s we’re looking at the result Yeah. of our activities Absolutely. as a signal of how well we’re living. Yes, absolutely. And that messes us up because the result of your activities is not under your control. Yes, absolutely. And so, if you’re living your life based on the result of your activities being a signal that you’re successful, Right.
you’re setting yourself up to and all of us do it all the time. I was using um Jada’s reaction to my actions as a measure of the quality of my actions. Yeah. And one thing has nothing to do with the other. Yeah, absolutely. Right? And that’s that’s not what we’re taught, right? And you know, the the the the concept that someone’s reaction to your behavior is theirs and your behavior is yours.
And when you try to marry the two, when you try to use the outcome as a measure of the quality of your own being, Yeah. that is the kiss of death. Correct. The this the way that this material world works, you can do everything right and it still go wrong in terms of outcome. Yeah.
And you can do everything wrong and it still goes right in the outcome. in the outcome. The outcome is not connected to the quality of your behavior. And that is such a hard idea to you know, to digest. So, when I started interacting with Jada and with my family as what a friend of mine, Michaela, Michaela Boehm, yeah, what she refers to as a free-standing man.
Right? So, I am I am certain and I am committed to being who I am and how I want to be without a craving for someone’s approval. Right? Because I know their approval doesn’t have anything to do with me. Right? Yeah. And you know, sometimes we get stuck in these situations where we’re seeking the approval of someone for our self-esteem.
Yes. Self-esteem is about yourself. Right? Absolutely. But we start looking to other people for our self-esteem. And you know, sometimes we find ourselves looking in broken mirrors to get a reflection of ourselves. Right? And the greatest tragedy is when you look into a broken mirror to see if you’re pretty. Right? And you’re going to let that person tell you about your inner qualities.
And the the greatest tragedy is when you look in a broken mirror and you’re going to change your face to try to look good in a broken mirror. Man. Woo, I’m so glad to be free from that. That was fantastic. That was that is incredible. And that and that’s it. That’s that’s that’s literally it. When you can free yourself from that cycle. Yeah. And that’s it’s a trap.
It’s rough. It’s crazy. It’s it just keeps you there and um you know, it’s but but that’s what I think I keep seeing in your journey. Like to see you at this stage in your career to still be growing, still be pushing. I mean, for people who don’t know, like I I have to share this because it’s what I find and this is the only time I get to tell everyone is you know, like for me to see you on set busy.
Like you know, I mean, for anyone who’s never been on set, it can be a stressful environment. Um your it’s high pressure. Like you’re acting, you got to know your lines, you got to interact. And the sun’s going down. going Will would literally come back in the trailer and he’d be reading in between being on set. So reading spiritual text, spiritual books in between and I would I just saw that and I was like, “Wow, like you know, it takes so much uh effort and determination and hunger Yeah.
to be filling each and every gap with growth. Yeah. And so for anyone who’s listening to this podcast while they’re driving to work, while they’re commuting, while they’re editing a video, however you’re consuming this podcast, I want you to know, like you’re doing that same thing. You’re committing to grow.
Committing to grow. gaps when you could just be doing something else. Like you could have been in your trailer, I don’t know, doing what people do in their trailers. I don’t I don’t know. I don’t I what people do in their trailers. No, that’s my past, I don’t I don’t do that in my trailer no more. I’m in there by myself now.
Or with me. And you know, and we would you know, and just I would see that dedication and I think if you know, to find time in between when you’re filming a movie and it’s you know, big budgets and all this everything and your your your focus was here. Yeah. Yeah. Your focus was here even in amongst all of that.
That was truly inspirational and you know, that that behind-the-scenes look at your your internal journey is has had such a big impact on my life. It’s it’s a no excuses Jay. Yeah. It’s the only thing to do, right? So, and that’s to learn. Right? To we have to free ourselves from the the darkness of our own ignorance. And the you wouldn’t call some something a problem if you understood it.
The problem is you don’t understand it. Right? That’s why you’re calling it a problem, right? You don’t you don’t call things problems that you have complete comprehension of. Right? So, the the the the process of freeing yourself from the pain and the the misery of your difficulties and your problems is in you know, constantly cultivating a broader comprehension of the deeper absolute truth of what’s actually happening.
Right? And one of the things that I learned is that if I feel bad um if I’m unhappy, if I’m upset, if I’m disrupted or disturbed the only thing that could do that is my ignorance. That’s the only thing that creates misery is you you you slip into a sort of hopelessness of not being able to figure it out. You know, and I just for you know, for me it’s I’ve got got into the to the place that life is school.
Right? You know, you’re not getting the promotion you want at work, that’s school. Get it figure it out. You know, someone in your family is sick. That’s school. That’s like life is the greatest teacher there is. You just have to be willing to learn and recognizing that your pain and your suffering is the thing that the universe is poking at so you recognize that’s where you’re ignorant. Yeah.
You know, you’re you’re you wouldn’t be having those struggles in those areas if you had a deep um broad comprehension of the fundamental realities of those situations. Mhm. Yeah, it’s so beautifully said again. It’s I when I was listening to you, I was thinking about how we’re programmed to believe that life is for enjoyment.
Right. But actually it’s for education. education. Yes, absolutely. seeking enjoyment in the education. So we’re trying We think we’re in a candy shop, but we’re in a classroom. I call that the poisoned honey scenario. Right? You’re You’re seeking enjoyment. You want something sweet and you don’t recognize that that honey’s poisoned.
Right? It’s going to be sweet going down, but it’s you know, the the kickback on that thing is something terrible. Yeah. And we see that we see that in you know, what you’re creating now and I remember we talked about how you’re amazing as the genie and you were saying how you felt you got to be so much of you and in the character, but even with the release of Aladdin that just came out, like I I feel like we’ve talked about this concept before and you brought it up.
You were like, you know, the sacred clown Yeah. has always been the emblem and the symbol. Yeah. And and again, it’s a it’s God’s gift where you get to entertain, make people laugh, but you want to help people grow through that. And and that’s really hard to do, but you do that’s you. That’s who you are. And tell us about how that’s now coming through in the work you’re doing.
Like how you’ve actually brought this into reality because sometimes it can feel very heady. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you’ve really been working hard on taking it out of the head into the heart and into the world. Yeah. Yeah. And that was that that was one of the things about um uh Aladdin Aladdin that was so defining for me, you know, and that that concept of the sacred clown.
I had written that down in one of my books, you know, five or six years ago and it’s like um at my core that’s either who I am or who I want to be, but it’s in there. It’s in It’s in It’s in there really deep and in playing the genie, it was like that I was at home, right? That combination of fun, light, silliness, and the imparting wisdom to to Aladdin, right? I was like, that that’s who I want to be in the world.
I want to be singing and dancing and being silly and playing and all of that and then sneaking ideas in, you know, under the joy. Um but I had I had heard that I think was the the the Lakota Indians or something like that and Native Americans. Yeah, they had the the image of the the sacred clown. often considered negative.
They have some Yes. Yeah, but it’s like I I I connected to it. It’s like, oh, that’s right. That’s what that’s what the singing and dancing and all of the joy and all of the smiling and all of that is for. It’s a it’s a just a beautiful conduit for the the ideas. And um you know, that’s just that that’s just at my core.
That’s I’m I’m happiest in that space. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I could talk to you for hours and we will. Yeah, I’m sure we will. going to let you I’m going to ask you what I call the final five. These are one-word answers. One-word answers. one sentence, the fast five. Okay, fast five. these are your fast five. The first is what is the best advice you’ve ever received? The best advice I’ve ever received.
Um the first day I got on the the tour bus when we were leaving for the first time leaving Philly, me and Jeff and all our squad. And the the last thing my grandmother said as the door was closing, she said uh And called me lover She She said She said, “Hey loverboy, remember be nice to everybody you pass on your way up cuz you just might have to pass them again on your way down.
” And I was like and I that that always stuck with me. I love that. That’s great. All right, second question. What’s the worst advice you ever received? The worst advice. My boy Charlie Mack. Charlie Mack told me He said, “Hey man, listen listen listen. The way you make a woman love you to make a woman love you you you take her to dinner, you know, and then as you going out to place, you just knock somebody out cuz a woman got to know you could defend her.
You just knock somebody out and if you knock her if you knock her it could be a stranger, but you just you just knock somebody out and she see your strength and that’s how she’ll feel confident and it changes everything. It changes your sexual life. It just change everything about it. You But you you got to get them good and just KNOCK SOMEBODY OUT.
” DID YOU TRY IT? YEAH, NO, I never No, I never tried it. Oh, that’s brilliant. I love that. Oh, man. If you if you would have tried it, I could have Yeah, yeah, no, I never tried that. Well, I kind of I kind of felt that that was bad advice in the moment. Third question. Uh I have to ask you about all three. No, two of them.
One thing you learn learned from observing the life of Julius Erving and Muhammad Ali. Oh, wow. So, So, Julius Erving was like the man went right right in the heart of my childhood. The 76ers won the the championship in 1983 in a four-game sweep of the Lakers. It was the heaven. And you know, Dr. the was in everything in Philly.
Um and I would say the the the single thing with Doc is he was he was always dignified. No matter what somebody said, no matter what somebody did, he got in one fight in his entire NBA Wow. career. But the idea that he was just perfectly still and uh he was an exquisite, well-spoken gentleman. Mhm. And and and that was the thing.
Uh he was a killer on the court. But you know, he was he was he was just exquisitely elegant and peaceful. Mhm. While at the same time doing the thing, and that balance of those two things I always thought was spectacular. I love that. That’s beautiful. Yeah. Ali said Ali Um Cuz you guys spent so much time together.
There’s some great interviews between you two as well. yeah. Oh, Ali Ali was hilarious. One of the things um you know, so Ali would just come to set, he would walk around, he would walk away, and just get on a bus. We said, “Yo, where’s the champ?” And he would get on a bus and just ride a city bus, and just ride with people. No idea where the bus is going, nothing, no security, anything like that, right? And he was engaged with, you know, people in a way I’d never seen anybody.
Like as famous as he was, he he engaged with people in that way. And I would say the total and utter submission to God. Mhm. Right? And he would he he he looked like he was arrogant. Mhm. But he it was it was the other way. It was like he was talking like that and acting like that because he was so utterly submissive to the the will of God.
And that that combination uh it just really inspired me with how I wanted to be with people in the world. And I asked Master Chen, why do you you just walk away with people like that? And you know you know he said, “Oh man, you got to let these people see you.” He said, “They They ain’t never seen nothing like you before. You got to You got to get out there and you got to touch them so they know you real.
People can’t aspire to stuff that they don’t think is real. You know?” You know, and it was like he was just so in tune with what he was. You know, and he he he that the the seemingly arrogant humility was was a beautiful combination. I love that. All right, question number four. Mhm. Uh what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in the last 12 months? In the last 12 months, I would say that the it’s that um ignorance and evil um are twins.
Mhm. They look you look at you look at them and they look they look just alike. Mhm. Um except that ignorance can be educated and evil is a much more difficult problem. Mhm. Um and I would say I learned uh fortunately that ignorance is much more prevalent than blatant evil. Mhm. If that If that makes sense. great answer. Yeah.
That makes a lot I mean that makes so much sense. We have to have a whole I know. Yeah. That’s a That makes a lot of sense. All right. Fifth and final question, if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be? One law that everyone had to follow. Um it would be that you have to repeat back what you heard the other person say before you’re allowed to say what you think.
That the the law is you’re not allowed to respond to what someone said until you repeat back what you heard and the person has multiple opportunities No, no, no, that’s not I didn’t That’s not what I meant. And until you repeat back accurately what the person said, you don’t get to talk. That is a great law.
I love that principle. It helps in every area of life. Every area cuz we our minds go way off the deep end with what we heard somebody say and our response Well, first of all, we’re not really listening cuz we want to We already know what we want to say no matter what they say. Mhm.
And and we go really way off the deep end. I I I was shocked and surprised by how far Mhm. we can be from what someone actually said to what we heard. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s a broken mirror. That broken mirror. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I love that. Well, is there anything I haven’t let you share or something in your heart right now that you’re like, “I have to say this.
” And you want to share it? It doesn’t have to be, but Uh no, not really. Just in in that idea, there was a something that popped in while I was saying it. Um that’s called the broken calculator, right? So, and it’s about, you know, human interacting. And the the the the ego can sometimes be a broken calculator.
In that, imagine the seven is stuck down. So, every equation you punch in is seven equals seven equals seven equals seven equals seven, right? So, no matter what you say to a person, if they’ve experienced a trauma, and in their trauma, you know, um men ain’t Men ain’t So, that’s the broken seven.
So, no matter what you say, no matter how you behave, it keeps coming up, men ain’t And getting our seven unstuck is a really critical part of being able to interact with other human beings. Cuz we’re we’re we’re painting uh on everything we hear them say. We’re adding our stuck seven to everything they say, and you just can’t get the the equation to come out correctly if your calculator’s broken. I love that analogy.
That’s awesome. I never heard that before. I love that, yeah. If everyone who goes away listening to this interview, the one thing you remember is that, what what is that broken calculator? What’s that number? going to do? to the equation. And you’re going to make it be that, no matter what is in front of you, your equation’s coming up with your broken number. Yeah.
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