Hi, I’m Denis Merker and this is Let’s Talk, a product of NMAS podcast. The Morena party is currently undergoing significant changes in its leadership, undoubtedly due to the need to prepare internally to face the 2027 electoral process in a competitive manner. Let us remember that at the federal level alone, 17 governorships and the entire Chamber of Deputies will be at stake.
This change also occurs when polls show a decline in Morena’s image in public opinion and when it has become clear that it is increasingly difficult for the Morena leadership to manage the political alliance with the Labor Party and the Green Party, which allowed them to achieve a qualified majority in the Chamber of Deputies in 2024 and therefore also be able to make reforms to the Constitution.
Morena is a recently created party; it obtained its registration incredibly only 12 years ago. During that time he has already won the presidency of the Republic twice. But his extraordinary rise cannot be explained without López Obrador’s repeated promises that they were different and that they would end corruption and waste.
And yet, in recent years there has been a proliferation of revelations of ostentatious and inexplicable lifestyles of Morena party officials, legislators and rulers, and, in general, a rise in practices such as corruption and the misuse of public resources, behaviors that were associated with parties that were already highly discredited.
So the question is, is this the inevitable consequence of governing in our country? We are condemned to these practices being repeated time and time again, regardless of which party is in power. And how much will this deterioration of its image cost Morena at the polls? How much does the president violate these practices at a time when she is facing strong pressure from the President of the United States, Donald Trump? Today on Hablemos, we have Sitlali Hernández, whose political career has been linked to Morena since its inception, to discuss all these topics
. In 2015 she was a local deputy, the youngest, by the way, to win. She won a district for Itacalco in 2018, was elected senator from 2020 to 2024, was general secretary of the party, was again elected senator in 2024 and appointed by the president Claudia Shembam, secretary of women. Now he’s returning to the party to take charge of nothing less than the next electoral process.
Citlali, thank you for being here with us. How are you? On the contrary, Dani, it’s a pleasure. Well, I was saying that it’s very difficult to explain, let’s say, your career is totally linked to this party, to Morena, uh, incredibly young. Tell me a little bit about how you got started in politics and how that, let’s say, that beginning, came together with Morena from the beginning, from the beginning of your career and the founding of the movement.
Look, I think that most of the activists and supporters of Morena have a common history with mine, that is, we were not born into a political elite, an economic elite, we did not want to dedicate ourselves to politics. I wanted to dedicate myself to journalism, and I studied journalism. However, this call, as you rightly say, made by Andrés Manuel López Obrador in his constant efforts to organize ourselves, to take power through peaceful, civic, and electoral means, and to put into practice an alternative project to neoliberalism, I believe
that it summoned many of us who went from being restless, conscious citizens, to becoming sympathizers, then militants, and then we assumed more responsibilities perhaps without seeking it, right? But in your specific case, what were you doing? How did you end up starting your first, let’s say, your first political activity? Yes, in my case, I think that like most of my generation, Andrés Manuel López Obrador caught our attention when the impeachment proceedings took place.
I was 14 or 15 years old. I remember asking my dad to let me accompany him to the Zócalo. I was very impressed to see so many people angry, crying, furious about the outrage of the then head of government, wasn’t I? From then on I did n’t lose track of him because he caught my attention, like a character who was clearly building part of our country’s history.
And when Morena emerged as a movement, I approached Morena Jóvenes, Morena Cultura with Paco Taibo. The growth of Morena, the Morena movement, came together with the # YoSoy132 movement, of which I was also a part. And when Andrés Manuel decided to resign from all parties in 2012, you’ll remember, a discussion began throughout the country.
They resigned rather when he decided not to participate in this alliance of parties or resigned, do you remember after 2012? I remember it very well because I left the Zócalo angry that time. He resigned from the PT, the PRD, and what was Convergence when Peña Nieto won through a massive purchase of votes, and a discussion began in assemblies of those of us who were already, let’s say, militants of Morena movement, about whether Morena should become a party or a movement, and what won was that we should be
a party-movement. I was part of it; there were very few of us who were active, and I was part of the first delegation committee in Istacalco. I was the secretary of culture, and Andrés Manuel has had the ability to not waste any member or any person who wants to participate. So, to all the committees, who obviously didn’t earn a salary or anything, he gave us tasks of affiliation, collecting signatures, that is, we had territorial tasks all the time , obviously in our free time. Uh, and well, in 2015, which
is Morena’s first electoral participation , candidacies are defined a year in advance; Morena’s Statute says it is by survey or by consensus. Uh, it’s been a while since we’ve had any consensus. And most of us who were active in Itacalco at that time, and there were really very few of us, decided to agree that I should be the candidate for a local congressional seat.
Most of them are big, right? They weren’t young, a little excited about the possibility that they were choosing for the first time; some came from the PRD, and for the first time it was in their hands to put forward a candidate. And in this confidence to promote young people, I finally accepted because at first I was finishing my thesis, etc.
Well, it was a scenario in which we would surely lose, and it was clear to us that we had to do everything possible to continue positioning Morena. Andrés Manuel López Obrador was the leader. He asked us to go door to door, I think 300 or 400 a day. Who did it? Well, we won in 2015, didn’t we? I was 24, 25 years old, well, I went into the campaign at 25 and my neighbors had seen me for years before doing informational activities, let’s say, having community activism and it was like, I mean, let’s say this territorial work managed, well yes, like I gained the trust,
let’s say, of my neighbors, right? And I won the local council seat and well, that’s what comes next . And what was your expectation? In other words, you were already in it, you were n’t going to become a journalist, you ended up as a very young congresswoman. What were your expectations of what you thought Morena could produce? Well, look, my first big intention was to help López Obrador become president, and my expectation, well, the truth is that it was to return to my daily life, but no, but your political expectation, that is,
what did it mean for you that he became president? What was going to happen in the country? Ah, well, the possibility of establishing a new national project, which is also what caught my attention, his leadership. But I was also an activist, and I even participated in radical movements, in quotes, of “don’t vote, organize,” where I saw nothing but going out to marches, I never saw how we organized ourselves.
So, we knew very clearly what we didn’t want, but the only one who proposed what we did want, which was a different national project, no corruption, the fight against poverty, the development of the country through energy sovereignty, let’s say, the whole project he proposed was what appealed to me . And notice that you said at the beginning that most of those in Morena are like you.
I would say that I’m not sure because I think there are people like you, and then there are many who actually came from other parties and joined in, with all the consequences that entails, and I would like to get to that point because ultimately, what you’re telling me hasn’t happened in a country’s history for very long; nothing has changed.
I mean, uh you, 2015, 11 years have passed since you were elected deputy at the age of 24 . She has already been a senator twice, and a Secretary of State, and so on. And the truth is that in that very short period, I think Morena took advantage of the disrepute of the parties that were known and thanks to that, let’s say, it had this impressive breakthrough, well, let’s say they won, but there has also been a very rapid decline and that’s what the party’s approval rating polls indicate. And I would like you to tell me
what you attribute this deterioration of the party’s image to in such a short period. Look, I’ve seen Morena’s growth since its founding, and I think the left always has one bad condition, and that’s time. In other words, it seems to me that yes, indeed, we won because of the decline of other parties, because of the proposal of a project, but it is also true that the majority of the Mexican people wanted a change for decades, right? He voted for Cárdenas, he even voted for Fox thinking it was a change, etc., looking for him.
However, I believe that 11 or 12 years of party life is practically nothing, and political projects are made by human beings. Uh, and an organization, a party, uh, implies a power struggle. Well, there’s a budget, there are candidates. Well, I do maintain that the majority of people in Morena are good, honest people with convictions, and that on the one hand we are in this natural, uh, in the natural contradictions that every political project of change has.
In other words, we are getting closer to the vices of traditional politics because there are those who have arrived and perhaps do not believe in its founding principles, or we continue to cling to a political project that also seeks to change the political culture, not just change this country. And that’s kind of a constant struggle in a left-wing project, in a political project so new that it has also gained so many positions in such a short time.
And I would add another topic. Of course, our adversaries do everything to maximize errors and contradictions; that is to say, it’s part of democracy , it’s part of the dispute. And that’s why I believe that this stage that Morena is beginning, in which I am… But let me get to the point, sorry to interrupt you because I think this topic is important, and well, it’s a new party, in all parties there are contradictions, and indeed there are people who may not share what you say, and you just made a distinction that I find very
interesting. Are they still a project that wants to change the political culture or do they just want to change the country? And I think there’s a lot of attention there, because ultimately the discourse of the founder, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, was a discourse of a change in the entire political culture, right? When he spoke about it, I remember very well that he said that every Mexican politician sees politics as a matter of individual social advancement, not as a kind of path to actually reduce poverty. So, do
you think there are still those committed to changing, let’s say, the political culture, or are they now more focused on changing, let’s say, what is also important, which would be changing the project? who is in power. I am convinced that it is. In other words, for me, Morena emerged with three fundamental objectives, right? Bringing Andrés Manuel López Obrador to the presidency and starting the implementation of a government project that has results are evident.
Of course, there are several pending issues. There were certainly issues we thought would be addressed more quickly, such as pacifying the country, etc., but both Andrés Manuel López Obrador and President Claudia Sheinbaum are working on them. The president works every day with deep dedication to implementing that government project.
And the other objective, which is to change the political culture, along with the third objective that I believe Morena has, which is to contribute to a revolution of consciousness, is what generates this tension. In other words, there are certainly people in Morena who don’t want to transform political life, who want to relive politics, who want to survive, but I can truly assure you that they are a minority.
That’s why there is a membership, there are supporters who are constantly demanding and highlighting these contradictions and asking for better decisions to be made, especially regarding candidacies, because what is visible is the governor, the mayor, the congressman. In other words, no one can question that the president is honest, that she is hardworking, that she has a deep conviction to transform this country, but perhaps there are observations about some deputies, some mayors, even governors, right? So, this demand, which doesn’t just come from the
opposition’s political strategy of leaning towards saying they’re the same or more of the same, this demand comes from our members and our supporters. Now, let me ask you, what is it that causes them, deep down, to have become contaminated, if you will, by the political practices of the past? And I believe there are a series of decisions that were made, and made very quickly, in Morena.
They explain it, and I’m going to show you some to see what you think. For example, prioritizing winning at all costs, I think, led him to a pragmatism of accepting candidates who came from other places and who were as if purified by the simple fact of joining the movement. That’s when many PRI members realized that they would never win again with the PRI .
They said, “The path to power is through Morena.” And they offered political work that they had done, and you added them up, and you can’t ask them to think like you, let’s say, like someone like you who started the project from the beginning. What I want to tell you is that there was no pragmatism in the attempt, the need, or the ambition to win everything quickly and at all costs, and that is what they are paying for today.
I think there have been two visions in recent years in Morena, those of us who want to cling to that founding sense, maybe three, with effectiveness and with principles, that López Obrador always said that politics was that. And those who understand pragmatism in a voracious way, that is, winning for the sake of winning. Well, in those two visions, there have always been internal discussions.
In other words, I am convinced that Morena has the support of the majority of the Mexican people and that they expect what it offers to be an honest person, a hard-working person, a person with conviction, and not a character who may bring some territorial or political strongholds and who adds electorally, but not politically.
It’s part of it, I’m not afraid to say it publicly, because it opens a debate that the opposition can always use against us, but I think that’s what happens within the parties. And I do have a lot of hope and I’m very optimistic that most people, the members, even their leaders, their elected representatives, understand that Morena cannot be just another political party, and these internal discussions that exist…
the doubt lies in the future, right? In other words, is Morena moving closer to traditional politics or is it still clinging to what gave it meaning? And I honestly believe we’re going to succeed in that last one. Look at the data and what caught my attention, for example, in the evaluation of governors, in the top 10, that is, the best evaluated, there are five governors who are not from Morena.
This is in a context where most of the governors are, and it turns out that it is headed by Curi of Querétaro. Tere Jiménez is very good, Libia Denise from Guanajuato appears there, Manolo Jiménez from the PRI appears there, of course there is the one from the Green Party of San Luis.
Uh, and the best one is Mara de Quintana Ro within your movement , let’s say. But it catches my attention, and I wonder if, in this exponential growth, you didn’t have enough qualified people, that is, there weren’t enough qualified people. And I remember that Andrés Manuel López Obrador said several times that you had to find them, and that in this kind of very rapid growth, you opted for people for important positions who had consequences in that they did n’t know how to govern, that they couldn’t deliver results. that was required and that’s going to
start weighing on you. You know what, I think the national situation changed at a different pace than the local one, I mean, in the State of Mexico, for example, right? We are facing almost 100 years of PRI rule. One of our own, teacher Delfina, is the one who manages to break or stop the growth or continuity of the PRI.
Well, I do believe that being in opposition is not the same as being in government, and that many political figures are on equal footing in this transition, and that is what some of us have been preparing for. Uh, but I think that each reality in each entity of the Republic, for example, Hidalgo, right?, which was practically governed by the PRI for more than 80 years, we broke the political group that had governed in the last decades.
with a picture that came from them, uh, honest, decent from my point of view, uh, and that was perhaps necessary to start a transition. Uh, I don’t know if it’s self-deception, I don’t think so, but I think that in the reality of the state, in some states, we had to break up those political groups, even with the addition of some actors who had suffered.
Andrés Manuel López Obrador himself left the PRI after suffering at the hands of the hegemonic groups in Tabasco, right? I don’t know if we can take power without those ruptures, and it seems to me that in recent years those ruptures have been generated. Of course, it’s a condition, I’m not saying it’s good or bad, but I think that in the face of that reality we should continue to foster the development of governing political cadres, generate an internal momentum that allows us to make it very clear from the party that our intention is not to win for the sake of winning and that we do
need to deliver the best results in government, because that’s why the citizens supported us, that’s why they have been supporting us, because they genuinely want their lives to be transformed in their daily lives, in the municipality, in the state and of course at the national level. So, I think that in this political dispute that the parties also have to have, and that Morena has been, among other things, confronted or tried to, well, the evidence is there for all to see.
The PRI is at its worst electoral moment. Well, we had to make these kinds of decisions as well. Meanwhile, Morena continues to build and promote strong enough cadres, for example, to contest a state government. For example, by 2027 there is one of the internal challenges. Now we have more candidates and more candidates heading towards the governorships.
We’ll get to that later. I find what you’re saying very interesting because I have a memory of two López Obradors. I have a memory of López Obrador from 2005, with whom I once spoke and interviewed, and who at the time refused to even consider making a pact or talking with Wester Gordillo, or who rejected an alliance that the northern governors did propose to him.
When the PRI members saw that Roberto Madrazo, who was also their adversary, was in third place, and they didn’t want him either . They naturally felt closer to López Obrador than to the PAN party, some of them and chose to approach him, but López Obrador rejected them. And in an interview that Elena Poniatowska gave him in the Zócalo, already at the sit-in, Andrés Manuel told her that maybe he made a mistake, that it was, let’s say, this one of them all being disgusting , I’m not going to associate with them, and that maybe that had a
very strong impact and surely on the elections, but then another López Obrador appeared, the López Obrador who began to accept everyone and the López Obrador, for example, who supports Cuauhtémoc Blanco as a candidate for governor . And I have nothing against people, whether a footballer or anyone else, holding a position, but I do object to someone who, to occupy the municipal presidency of Cuernavaca, had already asked for money to do so.
There’s a contract he signed, anyway . And that’s where I ask myself, do we know what happened to Morelos after that governorship? It was left in pieces. Crime is worse than ever, and this new governor from Morena—who is indeed from Morena, she is indeed from Morena—is now facing a rotten situation, and that’s where I think what you’re saying.
So, to gain power, it was necessary to make deals or alliances, break up groups, and so on. I imagine that some turn out well and others turn out very badly. Yes, I think that’s the dynamic of the power struggle. I don’t believe that the left’s condition of having time against them should always be framed as not doing anything that violates our principles or harms the people of Mexico.
In other words, it took decades for the people of Mexico, who wanted change, to take power. Well, it’s going to take us even more years to fully implement our project, although I’m convinced there are many successes; 13 million people escaping poverty is no small feat, but there’s a different reality in each state.
That’s how I see it from these 4 years that I was in the party where suddenly you don’t have, uh, maybe some candidates to contest a government and you need state governments to support the government, uh, the presidency of the Republic and you need a majority in Congress, etc. But that’s why I’m telling you that in 2027 there are more members of Morena who continued to move forward, who continued to position themselves, even above the members who come from other parties, they are more positioned.
So, what happens in 2027 is very important for that reason, because we have been vying for power through elections for 11 years with a series of ideal principles that the majority of the Mexican people continue to support, and what we offer in 2027 to the citizens in the municipalities, in the states, for the local and federal congresses has to be a very clear message, and that is that Morena wants to continue with a project of change in the political culture, and the truth is, look, now that I was in the federal government, if you have
mayors and governors with whom you can support the government in its daily activities, it is much easier for projects to move forward, and I’m not sure that it necessarily has to be only Morena’s projects. I mean, I feel the truth, because when I saw the president dealing with the floods, the way she responded to a Curi in Querétaro seemed impeccable to me.
Or the way in which he responded, that is, when he was governing, well, it’s not just about those who think the same way that they will be. Definitely. But look, I find it interesting because once we accept everything that the condition of a new political elite implies, let’s put it this way, a new elite arrives and from the outset, in order to get into power, it has to make alliances with those who were in power, break up political groups in the states, and so on.
This has a cost, and that cost has perhaps been the clearest among this first batch of governors, among those who, let’s say, were removed, and others, because I’m thinking of Rutilio Escandón with terrible results in Chiapas. I’m thinking about the scandal of Adán Augusto and his security secretary, Hernán Bermúdez Requena, with links, that is, being the leader of a criminal group.
But I think it would be interesting to understand from your perspective, if not the way to send a clear message to the public that this is not going to be implemented, that it’s not simply that the moral aspiration has run its course, let’s put it in place, then it would also be to make clear statements about the activists, officials, regardless of their level, who engage in these activities.
And I feel that hasn’t happened, that you haven’t said, ” Look, with your permission, this isn’t in line with our movement. This man, well, starting with Adán Augusto, however powerful he may be within Morena’s internal alliance , these things aren’t going to happen here. The mayor of Tequila who was extorting money, those who end up in the most expensive hotels, those who end up bragging about trips to Las Vegas, at what point did the party—because it’s not the government—at what point did the party turn against them ? You’re not what I
want Mexico to see in me. Why hasn’t that happened? Look, I’ve only been here a few days because of what you’ve done. But I am, yes, I agree with you. I would say two things. One, I think that fortunately, a political elite hasn’t yet been established in Morena as you believe. I believe, I believe there are leaders, I believe there are leaders who have a certain weight, but they don’t function as an elite, and I think that’s part of what’s seen from the outside.
” Morena, I mean, there are noticeable tensions, right? And I think we have to be very firm, and that there are internal bodies within the party, the National Commission of Honesty and Justice, that on the one hand, the government itself has been, for example, in this investigation against the mayor of Tequila, well, it has been the government itself that has not generated impunity, and I think we have to be very firm.
No one who breaks the principles of austerity, no one who commits corruption, no one who uses power for their own, family’s, or personal or group benefit. No one who comes to power not to govern, even if they don’t steal. For me, corruption is also not using your power to serve the people. None of those figures, without naming names, who are outside the ethical and moral principles that we have upheld, should have a political future in Morena.
I am convinced of that. Surely I could be criticized for it because there is a logic within Morena of purism, of sectarianism. No, it’s not a position, it’s a position of caution. Because the majority, I’m truly convinced, the majority of the membership wants Morena to remain a political party of causes, of ethical principles, but now we also have the advantage of being in power.
So, we also have to be honest and deliver results, like the president. So, I think we have to be very forceful. I mean, you would ask for a commission of honor and justice, the so-called one. Yes, there is a commission. And do you think it should be much more forceful? Yes, I think so. I mean, because it’s going to be interesting.
Even, forgive me, Denis, I think they should even act on their own initiative. When, look, when Morena was emerging, I was a local prostitute and I donated half my salary, and the other half went to building Morena in other states of the Republic, which also shaped me politically a great deal. And the Commission of Honesty and Justice even acted on its own initiative when there were actions like, for example, when we had mayors here in the city, well, delegates, and they had agreed that the The budget was separate and equal
for everyone. Do you remember? There were deputies who decided to make a pact with the PEAN RD to benefit from another budget outside the budget and the agreement that existed between our delegates. And the University and Justice Commission acted on its own initiative. I do believe that the National University and Justice Commission of the Party has to assume that political, ethical, and historical responsibility.
And I would say that as president of the National Elections Commission, now that it’s my turn to lead the process towards 2027, I not only have this clear, but it’s going to be one of my priorities, and I do believe that you can be electorally effective, and in fact, you are much more electorally effective as a party like Morena, if you don’t create, if you set aside these profiles that harm the movement, which I find very interesting, and let’s get to the topic of your newly acquired responsibility so as not to burden you with everything that has happened,
but this issue of the way candidates are chosen, because there’s a huge, there’s a whole matter there, right? And I was thinking, because That’s right, you guys started it in Morena, the PAN has already adopted it, the PRI is adopting it now, and it’s all about polls. Hmm. However, the issue of polls has always bothered me.
And I’ll tell you why. Because I remember the left trying to hold internal elections. Um, the PRD in the first decade of this century, for example, tried several times to have its leadership emerge from an open election for its members, even for the general public. They were extraordinary disasters. I mean, Alejandro Eninas, I remember, won one day. Hmm.
But as Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday went by, he kept losing because of the shady dealings that were going on inside. The PRI, because of the old political culture. Absolutely. The PRI tried it after losing the presidency in a dispute between Roberto Madrazo and Beatriz Paredes. That was a mess too.
And it didn’t end up being anything worse because Beatriz Páez very elegantly said, “Well, you all stay there.” What I’m trying to say is, that’s why they opt for polls, because that way they don’t have so many problems, but there they abdicate their responsibility as a party to put forward not the most well-known candidates, but the best ones, those you believe are the best, those you have prepared as the best, because otherwise, well, it’s simply the most well-known one.
So, yes, we’re going to end up with, well, as they used to say back then, with Cantinflas, who knows how it would have been, but no, we’ll end up with anyone, with any celebrity. And being famous doesn’t make a good politician; it might help you win, but not to govern. The thing is, the stages of Morena have been, I mean, in 12 years, I’m telling you, I was elected by consensus.
Most of the 2015 candidacies were the consensus of the comrades, the active militants. Then we grew a lot. In 2018, it was necessary to be more competitive in the elections because there was a strategy: to win with the largest number of votes so that there would be no room for electoral fraud or anything else.
From the 18th to the 24th many things happened, perhaps this survey was not maintained which in some way does prioritize who is more competitive linked to the logic of knowledge in a world that prioritizes the famous. worldwide. Oh, by the way, yes, yes, yes. And then there’s the influencer, I mean, nowadays what pays is being famous, and he and a real political party are joining that little bit of politics.
But I could tell you in advance, let’s see, tell me that for the next process our polls are going to give, obviously knowledge is important, but they are going to give priority weight to the balance of opinion. In other words, if you are very well-known, but with very negative reviews, you cannot be a candidate for Morena.
And the formula that will be applied in the 2027 survey is a mix of knowledge, popular support, and how much people consider you an honest person and an approachable person. And, if you have negative votes, that’s going to matter because, let’s say, there are a number of indicators in the Morena polls where the positive votes didn’t matter as much as I think they do at this stage of Morena.
Uh, so, well, it’s one of the things we’re going to do in the elections committee. Look how great it is, there’s the issue of the survey and how it rewards people simply for being well-known, and therefore they have deputies, actors, etc., who leave to go and do a television program, anyway. things that have already happened to them.
Yes. The other issue is that conducting a poll creates an incentive to disregard campaign timelines. So, and I’m going to give you names, Andrea Chávez, I think she hasn’t been campaigning in Chihuahua for months but for semesters . It makes sense; the goal is for it to be as well- known as possible.
And he has an adversary who, if I’m not mistaken, is the mayor of Ciudad Juárez. So, how do you plan to beat him? Well, what you can do is make yourself known. And that includes her receiving money from businessmen to set up a small truck and go around providing health care to people. Well, we’ve seen, it’s not the only case, we’ve also seen in Quintana Arroya they’re doing, the customs director has done many things.
What I mean is that this issue of being known has many negative effects on the entire process. I also don’t see that when someone does early campaigning you tell them that they ca n’t do that with permission. That’s exactly what I was going to tell you, Denis. What I think is that there has been a lack of rules and order. I mean, you don’t understand the logic of the survey, because it’s a logic that might be romantic, but I believe in it because I’ve experienced it and I also know many colleagues, no, not in the logic of measuring a
survey, that is, if you set rules where you prohibit billboards, excessive spending, in fact, there shouldn’t be any advertising for any candidate whatsoever, right? The logic should be that you have been building in your territory for a while, talking to the citizens, visiting the neighborhoods, the districts, talking about our project, and that this builds a certain leadership for you.
I know many cases of colleagues who aren’t even famous on social media, but who spend their time walking around their territories and have won polls not only because of their name recognition, but also because people see them very well simply for their grassroots work, which is the essence, let’s say, or the logic that Morena had.
Perhaps they are the minority, but what I think has been lacking is order, rules, and maybe exaggeration, well, I don’t think I’m exaggerating, but even sanctions, sanctions when these rules are broken, right? Because , well, if there are no sanctions, uh, let’s say, what would happen? So, what’s going on? There is simply an incentive to continue because it is a recipe for gaining power.
Yes, but look, maybe the internal elections are already very advanced, but it’s part of the task I’ve come to perform. In other words, when you put clear rules on the table, when you respect them, when they are transparent, and when there is order, dialogue, and also a common understanding that we are not fighting for power for the sake of power, that is, we need to reach the midterm elections with the necessary political strength so that the president can continue the last 3 years of her government with a
qualified majority, with the best possible governors and mayors. In other words, when the party’s internal life begins to raise its sights and there are rules that are respected, I think it ‘s easier to bring order. I think that when exceptions are made to the rules, that’s when mistakes have been made. What do you think caused the mess? And I’m going to ask you this because I have the impression that it happened; there were very high-profile cases during López Obrador’s government, but I think that since López Obrador left there was
a kind of unveiling. Uh, that’s what they called it in the scandals of last summer, where that was already the union leader of the 4T throwing parties in Madrid. Well, anyway, I’m thinking about Ricardo Monreal saying that he was going to get on helicopters and that they shouldn’t be asking him why.
Anyway, there was , well, of course, López Obrador’s son in a five- star hotel in Japan and of course, as you say, the opposition can shed light on it and they are fully within their rights, not only that, but politically it is the right thing to do, because you also said that you were not going to be like that. But I would like to ask you, what do you attribute this to? either the discipline they maintained for a certain time was imposed by the figure of López Obrador and that López Obrador’s departure somewhat provoked this explosion, or that there
was no much more forceful, quicker reaction from the party to say, “Sorry, this is not tolerated here.” Well, I think the party could have done more, I mean, it could have, uh , it concentrated on the 12 million members in the sectional committees, which is very important and will be very important for the next process.
But perhaps he did n’t realize that it was also important to dedicate time to that, to call, right?, a deputy, a leader, and say, “Hey, well, that doesn’t go with Morena, right? Either you behave in accordance with our principles, or I’m going to have to criticize you publicly from the start, right? Because I think that when you’re in a leadership position, what you say is more complex, because if you criticize someone or criticize something, the party will be blown out of proportion, and that’s also a bit irresponsible for a leadership position. But it seems to me that
internal dialogue is a bit like what’s happening with Pete and the Green Party. What I’m doing now is ensuring that all the concerns and differences that can undoubtedly arise when three parties agree or try to agree on an alliance are discussed privately, not in public. It seems to me that perhaps—and I say this with fraternal criticism—he failed to dedicate enough time to that.
Time for that. Now, the lack of time is what led to a surprise. I’m sure you must have noticed some of your colleagues suddenly dressed, who knows how, showing off clothes from who knows what brand. And I wonder, if you haven’t wondered, what happened to them? Well, the other thing is this: What happened to them? I mean, what I was saying at the beginning is truly irresistible.
You start to be in power, and they start inviting you to things, and you can’t refuse the invitations. You end up at Formula 1 dressed a certain way. What happened to them? Look, I’d say there are two things. There are some people who have joined Morena whose lifestyle has been, well, with certain luxuries, right? That’s how they’ve been behaving.
And there are people who, perhaps, have changed. I saw the leap that Andrés Manuel was talking about, that every politician came from a middle-class home, from their place of origin, and ended up in the most expensive neighborhoods of Mexico City. He said that, and I think it has to be mentor. Look, I was a local political operative when Andrés Manuel was a leader, and as a party leader, I was constantly providing ethical guidance.
So, for me, it was like a learning experience, learning how to be a congresswoman, because it was also one of my fears: how not to be what I’ve always criticized, and I think the leadership has to take responsibility for that. I mean, I think that the leadership of a party like ours, in fact, sometimes doesn’t give you the time.
I was part of the leadership in the last election, because either you win an election or you dedicate time to domestic matters. But I think that the leadership has to constantly guide political and ethical behavior. Not because people arrive with inconsistencies, but because I do believe that power, as long as we don’t manage to fundamentally transform it, which will surely take several years, is rigged for that, for losing you.
I mean, you enter the Senate and everyone calls you ” Senator” and they open the doors for you as if you were a different person. The person you walk next to on the street. I mean, these ways of doing things, which some short-sighted people might find appealing , right? And that’s why Morena’s logic , which isn’t just rhetoric, is to stay grounded, because when you go out into the streets, when you go out and announce the reforms you’re passing, someone might say, “Well, that’s great, but what does that mean for my life?” Or when you manage to stay
grounded and on the ground, you see that there’s still a lot to be done, that there’s a lack of infrastructure, that there are people living in poverty, and so on, and so forth, well, you reaffirm your conviction to continue transforming a country that’s already undergoing transformation and that, of course, still has a long way to go.
But if you never leave the Senate, the Chamber of Deputies, if for you politics is meeting in restaurants, in cafes, well, of course that’s going to lead to your downfall. I mean, that ‘s not my case. I find it difficult to understand those who have transformed their lives It’s commonplace in that respect, but I do believe that power is well-oiled in that process, and that M
orena has to… I mean, we know this because we are not only transforming this country, but I insist, I do believe that Morena has the greatest purpose insofar as we manage to transform the political culture, which will be much more difficult than having taken power. I mean, as I was saying, of these three objectives, it took us decades for Andrés Manuel López Obrador to become president.
It will perhaps take us decades to transform the political culture as well , but we can’t… if you transform it, or they, or the pluralistic culture transforms it. That’s always the unknown when you try to transform, but I am convinced that our members and many leaders are committed to doing so, and that the focus has been on these contradictions, but that’s why party leadership is important.
Yes, but you know, I’m listening to you and I feel that he is facing something that has many difficulties because, in the process of wanting to make this transformation, as you yourself have told me, you have to make alliances, and so You break the PRI’s power, but you acquire a group that was part of the PRI, you make it your own.
This means you’ve already added people who didn’t follow the path you or others might have taken, and who are even less necessarily committed to those values. Furthermore, in other cases, you consider it essential to win because the majority in Congress is at stake, and so you appoint a governor and a group that also does n’t respond, and little by little you fill up, and we never know at what point they, those you brought in with those practices, outnumber those who came from grassroots activism like you . You discover you have a
very powerful group within and that you can no longer confront them without destabilizing Morena’s own power. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not as easy as just talking to them; sometimes the one who misbehaves is indispensable to the balance. And I’m thinking of someone much more than just the party; I was just thinking of someone.
Marcelo Ebrard, of course he was wrong to let his son live for six months in an embassy, because not all of us can send our children to embassies to spend six months there. Of course, he did wrong. Can the president do without him now? He’s not an official who has been very effective, very useful in the negotiations with the United States and within the party.
Can they really do without Adán Augusto, especially after he appointed the leader of the “sweeper” as secretary of security in a state? They ca n’t do without him because, apparently, he represents significant power. What I’m trying to say is that these limits of reality in politics constantly force you to tolerate things, and this has an impact on the image of that party that came in with the intention of not being different, and there comes a point when you say, “It ended up the same as always.
” But look, that’s why leadership is important in politics. I mean, the president leads her government, right? And I can tell you that I was part of her cabinet, and she puts you in a rhythm of work, dedication, and constant review. There’s no way you can be In the government of President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo, not working or not being h
onest… Well, not working, yes, but not being honest, I do n’t know. But the president has been impeccable in that regard. I mean, when everything that has happened in this six-year term, when there’s even a hint of something, like the case you mentioned of Adán’s former Secretary of Security, well, it was this government that decided—I mean, when you govern, you can make two decisions: ignore that you have that information or let the investigations proceed, and the investigations did proceed.
What I want to tell you is that the government’s leadership, on the one hand, has a logic, a purpose. I think that most of us who sympathize with the Fourth Transformation feel represented, proud, but within the party, the challenge is for the leadership to allow us to stay within those limits without crossing a line that we have vowed never to cross.
For example, I remember when in 2018 we got away with it. That was perhaps one of the most difficult discussions. that we had in the councils of the National Council of Morena, because for many of us it will be unthinkable to ally ourselves with a right-wing party. The leadership that existed, the invitation that was extended for the P to join, was to join a project.
Joining the P never meant promoting a right-wing agenda, but obviously they didn’t join the project either; that is, neither did you become right-wing, nor did they join your project. Well, they lost their registration for going into alliance with us, right? And it allowed us—I don’t know, I don’t have the exact figure—in some way, that sector surely gained something, but we didn’t lose our essence, and I believe that when there is leadership in these necessary alliances—if you look at, I mean, there are very few
left-wing projects now, but Lula, for example, returned to power by allying himself even with those who put him in jail. That is to say, these alliances, which are a political necessity to contest for power, have to be very well- led and very careful not to lose the essence. And that’s why I believe the key lies there.
That is, the party has to become increasingly stronger in the sense of adding members if necessary, only if necessary, but not with a logic of winning for the sake of winning, but rather with a strategy that recognizes that winning makes sense in order to continue transforming, because, moreover, Morena’s condition is that the people’s support exists as long as it continues to represent them, and the president today represents a large majority of the Mexican people.
The party also has the majority of support compared to other parties, but there are voices demanding that it make increasingly better decisions, and listening to them when you’re making decisions, in this case now that I’ll be leading this process, well, I think it’s the best way to avoid mistakes, or to make as few mistakes as possible.
The issue is interesting because of the consequences. You were talking a lot about time, and you mentioned the time it took us to reach the presidency. Indeed, many thought that the fall of the PRI would be followed by a left-wing government, and that wasn’t the case. It came in 2000, this Vicente Fox, and so on.
But we also have to consider that the disrepute of the political class allowed you to win in 2018, and the virtual disappearance of the other parties allowed you to win in 2024. But we’ve recently seen cases like in Spain, with the emergence of very strong left-wing parties like Podemos, and even center-right parties like Convergència, which became very powerful because they offered a generalized critique of the system, of corruption, and so on, and they didn’t survive 10 years.
Today they practically don’t exist anymore, after having become central players in power in Spain, and alliances in France. What I mean is, there’s an awareness of the consequences of having to make alliances with people you don’t like, and so on, in that process of politics. There’s also that line where you have to measure whether you’re jeopardizing the party’s survival.
Look, the greatest alliance is with the people of Mexico, and that’s not just rhetoric. Morena’s strength lies in a people who have confidence in it. And hope, and that recognizes the results of the transformation and also what remains to be done. And that’s why I insist, I mean, I think that leadership must always involve constant listening to what the majority of the people or our supporters have to say.
And also listening to the issue of them being surprised by these cases. Yes, yes, yes. I think that’s important, at least from my point of view, yes, because I disagree with you on something. You’ve said several times that we won partly because of the discrediting of the others. Yes, yes, partly, but you also know that there’s a very little- seen aspect of Morena’s activism, and that is that we were out on the ground the whole time, we were always talking to people, many times they called us crazy, right? It wasn’t to
minimize that process, because I think that indeed, well , without that they wouldn’t have been able to win, but I do think they didn’t face a strong opponent because the opponent came in on his knees. Yes. And he came in so defeated that Andrés Manuel practically started governing the day after the election.
He didn’t even wait the six months. I mean, that was Bacle’s attitude. Yes, I believe in the morale of the parties, which also helps in reaching government, but that doesn’t necessarily mean taking total power. I mean, because we were also facing de facto powers, the major narratives of the mainstream media, political groups on the ground that bought votes, and so on.
But why do I say this? Because an important part of Morena’s strength—that’s why I talk about the revolution of consciences—is that our members and our local leaders are constantly provoking discussion on the ground, which I think is lacking in recent times. We need to keep provoking it, because even internally, the discussion is about our mistakes and contradictions, which must always be addressed in a political project.
But I also think we have to keep, for example, looking at what’s happening in the world. I mean, there’s a serious threat of neo-fascism taking hold, even through democratic means. We are… We are perhaps living through a civilizational crisis where war is becoming part of our lives. That is to say, if you only see the existence of a party and your membership as a power struggle, well, we’re seeing things very small.
If you can see it in terms of what Mexico means, in the world, in the geopolitics that are shifting every day , if you can grasp that the success of Morena and our movement is partly due to our continued success in transforming a country that wants to transform itself, even beyond its political class. In other words, if you put your party into that dynamic, you generate an initiative more about purpose than about accessing power.
Absolutely. And I think that’s something we have to incorporate into Morena, because for as long as I can remember in Morena, there has always been a cause, even an adversary is part of the political leadership that Andrés Manuel had when he was party leader. How can we achieve this at this stage? Of course, well, I think that at this stage, it ‘s precisely the global moment, at this stage, that Claudia Sheinbaum reaches the m
idpoint of… Her government, with enough political strength to continue the transformation project in a world where people are literally just trying to survive, and here we are trying to transform lives and guarantee rights, of course it becomes important. But I do n’t know if these discussions are happening right now among our members, our supporters, and clearly our leaders, and we have to provoke them to shake things up because that’s how power works, you know, suddenly you get caught up in another logic, right? Look, I think the party has left the president a bit on her own.
Let me say this, I dare to say this, to have this opinion. I think the party has left the president alone, and I ‘ll tell you how. For example, on this issue I was telling you about, about putting a stop to people who aren’t doing things, or supporting her so she has the strength to do them. For example, we see the case of the CIA agents, it turns out there were CIA agents in a state government operation along with the Defense, but where among the state police officers dressed as state police, there were actually two CIA agents, if not
more. Well, this came to light because of an accident, literally, because they had a fatal accident, and the president immediately said, “We didn’t know, this is serious.” And when she started saying, “This is serious,” and expressed her disapproval of the United States, the ambassador appeared with a very harsh speech talking about the corruption in our country that exists, that hasn’t ended, and that nothing has been done about it .
The contracts are awarded because, as always, there is corruption in the country, there is extortion that is intolerable, and that this will drive away investments. And then, a day later, in the Los Angeles Times, those texts appear that are clearly leaks from the United States government , saying that the United States government is actually going to denounce government politicians who are either corrupt or linked to organized crime.
Well, they hit the president. The president is now waiting for the United States to come and put her party’s elected officials in order. I think it undermines her effort to have, let’s say, a position, well, I wouldn’t say, of strength, but not of such weakness in the face of someone like Donald Trump. Look, I think the president has done an extraordinary job defending our sovereignty, don’t you think? And that’s why the party and the movement, which have been characterized not as a group of people who go out to vote, but
as a group of active people, we should be generating that discussion in the streets, in our communities, that is, what moment to take weights off and take weights off. And I honestly believe that if we have to distance ourselves from the bad profiles we have, then we have to, because that’s not who we are. I mean, we’re not naive about the fact that there’s an attempt at destabilization and that the opposition…
but we have to know how to separate things, of course, we have to know how to separate things, but that the opposition, in its desire to return to power, is capable of defending this, which is brutal, that is, that our sovereignty is violated, that CIA agents, not DEA agents, are involved. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Uh, with your permission, a PAN governor, well, I think it’s something we’ll have to discuss beyond what the president, as head of state, proposes, and I think she manages very well to maintain a very good relationship with the United States, our main trading partner, and also to be very decisive in stating that we don’t agree on anything beyond or outside of cooperation.
That’s where Morena, our party, our movement, needs to be generating debate, needs to be proposing a defense not only of the president, but of our sovereignty, and needs to be pointing out by name those who are seriously making statements that we are not exaggerating if we call traitors to the nation, instead of focusing on the political adversaries and those who, from within , if it is proven or if there is evidence, were irresponsible with a project that goes beyond one person, right? Let’s talk a little about alliances and because you’re in charge of
the elections. We were already talking about how the method will be surveys. You could tell us a little about how they’re going to do it and this effort to be more careful with the profiles. I understand that there is an attempt to take better care of the profiles and to give more weight to the positive balance than to the negative ones.
Well, and to begin with, it would be great if people had no ties to organized crime, because that’s something that needs to be taken care of in this and all parties, it seems to me. Hey, but let me ask you, did the PT and Green Party members react very well when you were appointed? So, it seems you got along well with them, and they reacted well.
I would ask you, what is the real basis of the coalition with the PT and the Green Party from within Morena? Why the alliance? I think it is fundamentally a parliamentary and electoral alliance . That is to say, in 2024, and I think that’s why they reacted well, we dedicated almost a year, morning, afternoon, night and early morning to building all the alliances for ’24, obviously the one for the governorships, the one for each local congress, the one for each slate of city councils throughout the country.
But our priority, besides the president winning, was plan C, which was one of the main causes that motivated even our supporters, and that was to have a qualified majority. So, that is, with the ability to change the Constitution. Yes, with the power to change the Constitution.
And it was impossible for Morena to win that majority because there is a limit to having the overrepresentation rule. And what we did was build a coalition that also benefited everyone. Pete and Verde have grown perhaps like never before in recent times. in which what happened happened , that Morena, Pete and Verde managed to bring to the Chamber of Deputies the sufficient number of deputies and also senators to achieve that majority.
Uh, now the objective will have to be, uh, put back on the table. In other words, I would say, beyond the criticisms that are always present in alliances, that unlike the alliances, for example, of the PRIAN, which you will remember was leaked, that they even distributed notary positions and things outside the law, we did not sit down to a dispute or a distribution of money, of spaces, that is, implicitly it is present from the moment that representation in Congress implies a greater amount of a programmatic objective, let’s say. In other
words, there was one from the majority party, which was Morena; there was an objective for the president to win, but to have the majority to modify the Constitution, promote the reform of the judicial branch and other constitutional reforms that the president has sent. Now, the goal heading into the 27th is to maintain a majority in the chamber, maintain a majority in the congresses, 30 local congresses that are up for grabs, also win the main cities of the country and the 17 governorships, maintain where we govern and contest others. And
the electoral strategy has to be thought out with that and with everything I’ve said before, that is, within the framework of good profiles, good candidates, not bringing in any profile with questions not only ethical ones, but also one that has no crime or that has no indication whatsoever of anything negative.
And well, to get there it involves dialogue, dialogue, dialogue and building an alliance that is convenient for the three parties. It was clear to me what Morena’s intention was, which was to obtain that qualified majority, which they could not have. Finally, they fielded candidates; they not only formed alliances, but some of their candidates were nominated by those other parties, and they effectively managed to achieve this qualified majority.
Well, they weren’t the first to do it; the PRI had already done it, albeit to a lesser extent. You guys did it in a big way, let’s say. I doubt that the reasons of the Green Party and the PT are the same. I believe that the Green Party has been an ally of any party that has been in power. Actually, Morena is one, but it was PAN and it was PRI.
Uh, and I think they’re just growing under that wing, yeah? Doing you the favor of making those constitutional changes, but today I see a green party that is already asking for three governorships. In other words, I feel like they’re having more problems than they can handle . And what does that mean? If you saw the case of Hungary, then I don’t think the electoral threat will come from outside, nor will it come from the parties that today seem so finished, so from the old regime.
It seems to me that you are making your own opposition stronger. What could it be, the Green Party, which I ‘ve never seen convinced of any ideology, neither that of the PRI, nor that of the PAN, nor that of yours, or the Labor Party, which has always had a small group, let’s say, a space of power that gives it resources and takes advantage of everything you do to become bigger.
In Veracruz you said no to nepotism, because all the brothers, sons, fathers, uncles of those who governed and who were members of Morena, since there was no longer going to be this nepotism and you did not accept those candidacies, the PT took them and won many spaces. So what is this manipulation of who actually wins between you and those parties, and what does it mean for us as citizens and for the future of the party system? Yes, look, that’s why I was saying that it’s fundamentally a parliamentary and electoral alliance, because
clearly we couldn’t say that it’s a totally programmatic alliance, right? However, I think that it is part of the task I have been called upon to do. In other words, if you put certain rules and a certain order in a negotiation with the coalition, it is more difficult for things like what happened in Veracruz to happen.
I think that in Veracruz there must have been an agreement between allies and the Labor Party not to include our candidates, because the conditions of the elections today are more complex than before. But it suits them. Yes, of course, it benefits them, but you also have the principle of no nepotism, they don’t. Yes, but there are also certain values that, as allies, must be respected, otherwise , I mean, do you think what happened in Veracruz could have been avoided? I think it could have been avoided from the start by insisting on going together, maybe not. Well, that’s part of the
challenge. Yes, it’s a very different political scenario. Yes, yes, I understand. The idea that the opposition will eventually come from there, not from the old parties. I understand this as a concern for citizens and even our own members, right? Well, it’s being considered, but it seems to me that in the relationship that exists with the parties there have to be very clear and very firm understandings.
Morena is the largest of the three parties in the Alliance, right? And we respect the internal life of each party, and each party has its origin, its statutes, its rules. Well, but it seems to me that in the end, the strength of Morena as a large party, with which the alliance is being formed, has to be, and the capacity for dialogue without hurting each other among allies has to be strong enough so that it is not detrimental to either the electoral strategy that we put on the table, or to what ultimately gives us the meaning of doing
politics, which is really what the citizens are asking for and demanding from us. We cannot be held responsible for the behavior, let’s say, of some actors from the PT or the Green Party. However, it does seem to me, because it has also happened in recent days, that in respectful dialogue there can be a little more order, because in the end it is not about us being allies of convenience and sometimes distancing ourselves from each other.
Uh, so, well, I understand the “But also, you know what I think?” The citizens are very intelligent, and there was a very strong vote for the coalition in 2024 because there was an understanding that this qualified majority was important, and everything that has happened in recent weeks, which we want to rebuild, does have some sectors observing how much they support each party individually or not.
So, you think there could be a punishment? Let’s see. In other words, just as there can be a punishment for the Green Party, the truth is that there can be a significant punishment for Moreno because he has the largest number of prominent figures who have been linked to scandals or things like that. But let me tell you something because I’ve also told you this, and I’ve said it publicly.
You say, “We obtained the supermajority in the House and in the Senate.” No, they didn’t get it in the Senate. Senate. Yes. And in this matter of pragmatism, and with all due respect to you, because of the work you’ve done and that genuine trajectory, this issue of doing things at all costs, the judicial reform passed because you accepted the Yunes family in the Senate, and you accepted a couple of politicians, especially Yunes Sr. and Yunes Jr.
, to vote with you, who have, I believe, one of the longest lines of support in national politics. You personally greeted him with a hug, Cicali. I do n’t remember if I greeted him with a hug. I’m asking you, that’s where I tell you, really, what’s the limit? Look, I think it was unnecessary to add him, I mean, I think that if there was a proposal and a dialogue that I understand that Adán Augusto fundamentally had to vote with us.
You could vote without needing to add up. And I understand that the attempted affiliation is in an internal commission of Morena, defining whether to accept his affiliation or not. I mean, I do think that there are limits, that there are limits that cannot be crossed because it’s not just what the public observes, but also our grassroots members, there are wounds that are still fresh and there are some people who have hurt us. Yes, of course.
They have damaged not only political life, but public life as well. But it’s part of this, I insist that there has to be good leadership, that our chambers… there has to be an articulation between the party and our chamber coordinators. Uh, it’s not a logic, let’s say, of a hegemonic party, it’s a logic of order, discipline and leadership so as not to make a mistake in what a person decides.
Um, I think that this, I mean, I have the impression, because I was there, uh, that that vote could have been counted on without it joining Morena. Uh, well, let me ask you for your evaluation. end. I was recently talking to an acquaintance, a trade unionist from the 1970s, a member of Berto Castillo’s PMT, a left-wing group, and he told me, “We saw access to power as very distant and were very strict with ourselves, as groups that are far from power with the intention of reaching it tend to be, let’s say, very strict.” He told me, “And now I see
Morena and I see many things that are tolerated, and I wonder if we came to power or if power ended up trampling us.” What would you say to them? I would say that we are in a constant process of building power, that is, we are governing. I believe that there are always challenges, mistakes, and pending issues, but I would dare to affirm that the López Obrador administration, and so far the president’s administration, is living up to what the people of Mexico have expected, despite the challenges and difficulties that are
more evident when you are in government, and that the exercise of power is a constant struggle. Personally, I am convinced that there is a majority of us who will strive to ensure that power does not corrode the internal life of our party, but rather that our commitment, in addition to continuing to win governments, is to modify the power structure.
And look, extremely, I mean, I’ve already dared to say many things here, but at the extreme I would also dare to say that the popular force that supports our project is greater than the partisan force. That is to say, that’s why the issue of the revolution of consciousness is very important, because in the end the party is a tool, right? And to create a tool built by people, that’s a huge challenge, because that’s where the dynamics and inertia of traditional power plus that of human beings can complicate the original meanings with which you
found a party. But I do believe there is a Popular Force that, if it didn’t exist, if it weren’t questioning, pointing out, demanding, and supporting when it feels represented, I’d say, well, who knows what the future of Morena holds. But because of all that Popular Force that exists, that I see in the streets, that I hear, the grassroots activism, the cadres that are growing, who come from a different political culture , I allow myself to affirm with great optimism that we are going to overcome the inertia of power and we are going to continue
governing, and hopefully in the coming years we will look back and say, “Look, that rough patch was complex, but we knew how to move forward.” I’m convinced of that because there are many people who are dedicating their lives to it, right? And if we hold on to that popular force that has wanted to change things, that same force will lead to things not falling apart.
Well, thank you very much, Citlali, and we will, of course, be very attentive to everything that happens. Thank you so much for being here and thank you all for joining us. Remember to subscribe. Subscribe and we’ll see you in the next episode of Let’s Talk, a product of the NMAS podcast.
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